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"No More Spiralling Shipbuilding Costs, Vows Navy Chief"

soleil said:
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/No-more-spiralling-shipbuilding-costs.6673222.jp

Yippee! The RN has been ripped off for too many years, and so have the rest of the services.
It is a ship you are building (albeit to a high specification, sometimes) not reiventing the wheel.
 

cúnto

Lantern Swinger
How many military procurement managers have believed in defending the purse strings, until BAE offers them a Directorship on retirement?
 
cúnto said:
How many military procurement managers have believed in defending the purse strings, until BAE offers them a Directorship on retirement?

A serious allegation - fancy providing some proof, or are you just talking out of your hoop?
 

cúnto

Lantern Swinger
alfred_the_great said:
cúnto said:
How many military procurement managers have believed in defending the purse strings, until BAE offers them a Directorship on retirement?

A serious allegation - fancy providing some proof, or are you just talking out of your hoop?

It was a question, you dullard.
 

drewfester

Lantern Swinger
In some cases it was not the contractors fault the costs spiraled. More often than not it was because the contract was not written correctly and thus you ended up with things that had to be made right as the idiot who wrote the contract would say "fit this item" so the company would fit where they thought was good but then it not be fit for use in that position. Company then say "not in the contract" so the cost spirals
Believe Astute suffered very badly because of this as well so not just 45s and CVF
 

trelawney126

War Hero
Is there still a "Constructors" Branch who could finalise all these Fit or Not Fit bits into the design.
I believe the Constructors branch used to wear a white/cream colour between the gold rings.
 
RCNC still exist, although they no longer recruit.

****o - if it's a question, the answer is easy. Not a single one joins the private sector without first having their new job approved by the Cabinet Officer (IIRC), who can and will ensure that a Civil Servant takes a period of gardening leave and/or not work on specific projects. The probity of the Civil Service is (almost) second to none, don't impinge it.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
cúnto alleged, sorry asked

How many military procurement managers have believed in defending the purse strings, until BAE offers them a Directorship on retirement?

As far as I know, none of the current directors (executive and non executive) are ex service/MOD CS. One BAe grandee had been seconded to MOD ( and is now back with BAe) but his role was in export.

Ex RN unlikely to have been responsible for funds larger than the WO/SRs' Mess Bar takings are employed by BAe. The Old Iron Foundry is full of them. Win win.
 

Topstop

War Hero
I have been looking out of the widow for a long time now but have still failed to notice the Squadron of flying pigs, no change there then :evil:
 
G

guestm

Guest
alfred_the_great said:
RCNC still exist, although they no longer recruit.

*o - if it's a question, the answer is easy. Not a single one joins the private sector without first having their new job approved by the Cabinet Officer (IIRC), who can and will ensure that a Civil Servant takes a period of gardening leave and/or not work on specific projects. The probity of the Civil Service is (almost) second to none, don't impinge it.

It's a pretty solid and consistent rumour though isn't it? And one that never, ever goes away. Normally these things filter out when the next buzz comes along, but this one carries on bobbing along.
 

flymo

War Hero
Met a "constructor" S LT on the London (T22 type). Took him around the ship informing him of its gash design. Am pretty sure that what he saw got forgotten about.

Yep, no further spiralling costs in ship building within the next 5 years. We won't build another ship until 2016 ...
 
It's not the senior civil servants who jump across - it's the WO2s and Lt Cdrs who go straight from an IPT to a Defence Company. They don't make the big ticket decisions, but they do guide the contract along. However, their shelf life is about 12 months, after that they either get moved on, or prove their wider worth.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
flymo wrote
Met a "constructor" S LT on the London (T22 type).

Undergraduate then and yet to hear of Archimedes. I hope you are not still holding your breath.

I met one recently (4 ringer in rig - v unusual) who could calculate his own metacentric height and (low) centre of gravity with a slide rule and some lumps of iron but couldn't knot a tie.

RCNC are professional people but in my shallow experience, technical not commercial.
 

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
Hilarious item.

Both the CVFs and Type 45s were SUPPOSEDLY deliberately conceived, designed and built to minimise risk, through-life costs and to be "future-proof". This meant they were examined (by the service, contractor AND external consultants - including huge reports by the RAND corporation) throughout the design process.

To now claim that that was all a waste of time is an incredible piece of damnation on the Navy, MOD, BAE and all those consultants ! (and that exclamation mark is deserved)

I don't think those remarks will get him very much further in the service unless he has some very good evidence to back them up - in which case an awful lot of people "should" be taking early retirement.

Well, I am sure that the "coalition" who claim to have the economic benefit of the country at heart will now conduct a strict enquiry and sack thousands.

!

.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
alfred_the_great said:
It's not the senior civil servants who jump across - it's the WO2s and Lt Cdrs who go straight from an IPT to a Defence Company. They don't make the big ticket decisions, but they do guide the contract along. However, their shelf life is about 12 months, after that they either get moved on, or prove their wider worth.

I'd agree with this but add that I understand there are moves afoot to stop this as too many people have left/leaving/retired/PVRd and gone back to the same IPT as a 'consultant' and are charged out at up to £1800 per day (clearly they don't get that but get around 55%) when in reality they add nothing more than another service person would. Having said this I see little effect as I know people where I work who have recently done the same thing.

The hoops the Senior people have to jump through have gotten more stringent too, with most having to wait 12-18m, before they have join a civvy company they wre once dealing with - I can't recall the process something like a "business apppointment"?

I recall an RAF 1* who I worked closely with getting jaded and leaving and in doing so he said he felt it was time he could add more benefit from the services from outside. Years later and we still occassionally keep in touch and he's far more frusrated by [corporate] governance now than he was inside.
 

Topstop

War Hero
Seadog said:
flymo wrote
Met a "constructor" S LT on the London (T22 type).

Undergraduate then and yet to hear of Archimedes. I hope you are not still holding your breath.

I met one recently (4 ringer in rig - v unusual) who could calculate his own metacentric height and (low) centre of gravity with a slide rule and some lumps of iron but couldn't knot a tie.

RCNC are professional people but in my shallow experience, technical not commercial.

One who had worked on "T" Boats, no pun intended, came down Turbulent and was surprised at the lack of space 8O he had used the dimensions of the lumps of kit.he reconed that you should be able to walk upright between them 8O not crawl/squeeze between them. Hadnt allowed for Cables, pipes, deck plates, paneling, controlboxes or space for maintainance etc.

Any one who has seen the upper SRs bunkspace wonders how the F%&$ you are supposed to us the mirrors in the outboard gulch :?
 

trelawney126

War Hero
I think the designers are worth their weight in gold.
The design of the Junior rates dining room on HMS Fearless was classical.
To watch upwards of 300 embarked troops dining in a side swell was particularly entertaining. Built in entertainment :wink:
 
trelawney126 said:
I think the designers are worth their weight in gold.
The design of the Junior rates dining room on HMS Fearless was classical.
To watch upwards of 300 embarked troops dining in a side swell was particularly entertaining. Built in entertainment :wink:

The same of course on Intrepid, and boy could that thing roll! At least you could have three meals at one sitting :lol:
Such a bright idea to put the tables across the ship.
 
C

canteenflat

Guest
sussex2 said:
trelawney126 said:
I think the designers are worth their weight in gold.
The design of the Junior rates dining room on HMS Fearless was classical.
To watch upwards of 300 embarked troops dining in a side swell was particularly entertaining. Built in entertainment :wink:

The same of course on Intrepid, and boy could that thing roll! At least you could have three meals at one sitting :lol:
Such a bright idea to put the tables across the ship.
I recall Fearless in 1964 being one of the trial ships for the anti-cockroach spray on lacquer .It was sprayed on the cork treated bulk and deckheads and the DTD content was intended to kill the vermin. A Min of Supply film crew appeared several days later to film the dead bodies. Sadly they found but one who had stuck to the lacquer whilst stll wet.
 
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