New financial retention incentive for engineers.

Discussion in 'Finance & Pensions' started by stoker84, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. Subsequent to last years FRI for engineers, the roumor now is that a new FRI is to be expected in the near future. Apparently the 3 year return of service is not enough for the magical Faraday project to fill the gaps and 2SL plans to dish out some more dosh. Has anyone heard anything similar or is this a dit straight from the Naafi flat??
  2. NAAFI flat gash can!
  3. I don't think you'll see a new FRI introduced before the current one expires.

    RRP for engineers would be far more suitable given the current difficulties in recruiting and retaining them!
  4. Ive been hearing some buzz's about this today :) I think i has to happen but like communicator says it wont come in till 2017, but i do think it will be anounced in 2016 so current FRI matelots dont put their chit in !!
  5. FRI??? Who needs money.

    New badges are the way ahead. RNTM 086-15 refers. :eek:
    CIS.jpg EL.png ML.png Weapons.png
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  6. Why the hell do they feel the need to change badges all the bloody time??
    How much does this cost the defence budget, before you say not much, remember it will go out to tender and the lowest bidder will get it, make a hash of it then get even more money to put it right!
    There must be boxes and boxes of old badges in a store somewhere, why not drag out the OM(C) badges and give them to the CIS lot and leave everything well alone?

    Empire building that's all it is. Some Officer gets a good idea and everyone else has to toe the line.
    I remember people being threatened with the table if they didn't get their badges changed sharpish when the OM branches where disbanded.
    Bloody great waste of money......again!! Rant over
  7. W.E. Submariners, "an agreement to look again at targeted pay measures for announcement in 2017 (before the return of service for current FRI scheme expires.)" 2SL
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2015
  8. October. 35k. 4 years?
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  9. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    NAAFI, Galley Range or DIN?
  10. From the AFPRB member who visited us recently - FRIs are increasingly unlikely: they don't work very well, are expensive and are highly divisive.
  11. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I'd hope, of all people, the AFPRB are intelligent enough to realise FRIs, for all their inadequacies, are about the only viable option they have.

    Unless they intend spending the defence budget on higher wages for technicians (unlikely), the only other likely option that springs to mind is to keep pouring money into the recruiting colander to try to keep pace with the outflow.
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  12. Given that the top 3 reasons for leaving aren't financial (ability to plan life, impact of RN on family life, unable to do the job they joined to do), I'd suggest the solutions aren't financial.
  13. The purpose of this next one, if it were to materialise would be to stem outflow until Future force 2020. Provisions were made to extend the current one by 2 years (extract below) so I'd say the AFPRB bloke is just the tea wetter, I believe evidence has shown them that a 60% uptake in FRI1, would allow a 4 year FRI2 to 'fill the gap' until FF2020.

    A Post SDSR announcement in October would give 6 months before April release, allowing visibility of 'how well it goes down'. And would certainly be cheaper than extra pay for engineers, as only those who the RN will benefit from will get it, sorry sick chits! (Also it negates other branches complaining about pay bands!)

    It would obviously be intended to reduce VO, most who say "I'm staying anyway, so it's free money" think FRIs are a bad idea, and that they don't work, fair one, it's a no brainer, take it, but to the RN; it's a guarantee of having someone SQEP in a position that would take years to get someone in as a SQEP replacement, which would leave gaps somewhere else. It would also help in bringing salaries in line with those available in civvie street, this has been done with Pilots, however £100,000 is a bit more juicy!

    They are a form of commitment bonus for personnel meeting the criteria, and the AFPRB obviously openly recommends commitment bonuses, and proposes a second FRI subject to terms in the March 15 report. Quoting 'financial provision may have been made' subject to further evidence.

    If it were say to have a ROS of 4 years from April 16, would it be a coincidence that this happens to be the date most who took FRI1 can submit notice, taking us up to April 2020 when FF2020 'should' have put us on the right track. A form of leak stopping until full implementation of, and flow through of SQEP personnel from LET upwards.

    From the March 15 AFPRB Report

    1. We were also asked to endorse an FRI aimed at improving the retention of Engineering General Service (EGS) Petty Officer (PO) and Chief Petty Officer (CPO) Engineering Technicians (ETs), to reduce VO, while a significant programme of non-remunerative measures enabled a sustainable recovery of the EGS sub-branch. The proposal was for the introduction of an FRI of £21,000 for three years return of service for POETs and of £24,000 for three years return of service for CPOETs; and that the FRI would be open from 1 April 2014 to 31 March 2016, but with a possible extension of a further two years.

    2. 3.80. In considering the proposal, we noted that the total cost of the FRI was very large, at £35.6m in the first year, and expressed concern over how the money would be found. We noted that redundancies had been made previously in this cadre and that we had considered the overall situation regarding engineers in the UK. MOD told us that at
      the time of the redundancies, the staffing situation for this group was not critical. Navy command judged this situation as one of the highest priority issues and would fund the measure.

    3. 3.81. We endorsed the proposals, with the proviso that the FRI runs until end March 2016. While financial provision may have been made for an extension out to end March 2018, we wish to be provided with further evidence before we endorse any such extension.
    1. 2.33. The Armed Forces have faced challenges in retaining engineers in recent years. In order to understand better the issues around this group, we looked at the labour market for engineers and considered pay comparisons between engineers in the Armed Forces and in civilian life.

    2. 2.34. Information gathered from various sources confirms that there has been a UK-wide shortage of engineers in recent years. This skill shortage and “market pull” for engineers with high technical skills has been reflected in relatively high engineer VO rates across the Armed Forces.

    3. 2.35. Information from MOD highlighted a number of engineering trades in the military which were experiencing shortfalls in staffing. These existed in all three Services, but were predominately in the Naval Service. Approaches to managing retention, such as Financial Retention Incentives (FRIs), have been introduced temporarily to alleviate the problem, with varying success across the relevant groups.
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  14. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    You and many others probably would.

    The shortage of manpower due to the tempo of operational tasking means that we cannot recruit fast enough to keep pace with the outflow. The Navy has reached critical mass where it cannot meet its tasking with the number of platforms at its disposal. We all know the obvious answer with regard operational tasking but until that happens, the only option is to try to retain what little you have. If money is not working, then they are not offering enough.
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  15. So we struggle to recruit and we struggle to retain? Remind me what RRP stands for again!!!
  16. True, but RRP would not give the RN a guarantee that personnel receiving it would not leave for 4 years, they can just whack notice in, immediately stop getting RRP and leave in a year.

    Regarding the non financial fixes, that's what FF2020 is promising to bring! So I guess they will just throw cash at it until then!
  17. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    It takes an average of about 8 years to "grow" a technical senior rate, compared to 5 years for a medical degree for a junior doctor - who gets paid twice as much upon registration. Similarly it takes a couple of years (and a lot of money) to train a pilot, the majority of whom leave at the earliest viable opportunity - unless they are temporarily retained by sizeable FRIs or promoted beyond flying duties.

    Since as long as I can remember, the average matelot only serves around 6 years. They are allowed to leave from about the four year point, in most cases. The main reasons for leaving, as Alf alludes, are actually a change in personal circumstances whereby the individual no longer wishes to be away from home as much and also wants to make future plans and requires stability - in other words they get a partner and perhaps a young family. This is perfectly natural, understandable and within the terms of employment.

    The FRI simply has to be substantial enough to make retention more appealing than becoming a civilian and cheaper than "buying" off-the-shelf technicians from overseas. It ain't rocket science & the FRIs offered currently are at best, paltry.

    Offering someone £7 or £8000 per extra year they remain in the service, is frankly an insult.
  18. Anyone seen Galaxy Brief 13-15 Lateral Entry- Direct Entry Technician Project? We'll be running a trial, getting a number of civies joining up direct as Probationary Petty Officers till they complete training, where they'll become POET(ME).
  19. No, but smells like DEA, tastes like DEA, looks like DEA. Maybe it is DEA. One would presume that Harcus Division will stand up in HMS Sultan
  20. Yes, and I think if they do it correctly it could be a success. Many Graduate engineers consider joining the RN as an officer under the premise that they will be involved in 'hands on' engineering, only to find out that they will be engineering managers and kept away from the systems they are responsible for. If they were to join as direct entry PO's this would offer them the chance to get hands on whilst being correctly employed at a management level.
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