New Carriers to be Cancelled..

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by chockhead819, Dec 3, 2007.

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  1. if Des Browne got his own way, leaked emails said the 3.8 billion cost was eating into the forces budget, the reason he changed his mind because it would have meant losing hundreds of jobs in Gordon Browns seat.

    The Sun p2
     
  2. In reality most of the Rosyth jobs are in the next constituency along which was nicked by a Lib Dem so once again the Sun get's it's geography wrong, mind you for an organisation that continues to employ that McKenzie charater thats not that surprising.

    Having said that if the carriers ever get bult and get planes it will be nothing short of a miracle.
     
  3. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Wrong geography or not, is it not fair to assume that a considerable number of the Dockyard workers live in GB's constituency, so there is some element of truth to the story?

    I would not buy The Sun under pain of death, however its political reporting (usually on page 2 - opposite page 3, so none of it's readers would notice it!) is often astute and accurate, despite the paper's reputation.
     
  4. The reality is that the bulk of the dockyard staff do not live in GBs constituency, which is based on Kirkaldy, where as the Dockyard lies in the heart of the contituency based on Dunfermline
     
  5. If Des Browne had his way he scrap the MOD period.
     
  6. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I didn't say that "the bulk" of the workers, just that it is feasible that some of them live there; but I maintain that neither GB or DB can maintain political impartiality when it comes to Cabinet matters when both have vested constituent loyalties in the regions that will be affected by defence cuts.
     
  7. So what's new MPs have always been at it to make their constituents vote for them next time round. If the Brown twins were not at it then we should be very worried about what they are doing, at the moment they are acting normal.
     
  8. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    A Browne on Brown I think.
     
  9. Bear in mind that were the carriers to be cancelled, you'd lose a shedload more jobs about 100 miles west of Rosyth.......

    This lot have not only screwed the navy, army and air force, they've managed to put the industrial base on a knife edge as well.
     
  10. .. and that's why I reckon Lord Drayson resigned at short notice for the "pressing" need to go motor racing - the money to make the Defence Industrial Strategy meaningful was not forthcoming. The next chapter of the DIS was meant to be released this month I think, but is now delayed ... probably until everyone forgets about it!
     
  11. Not just money unfortunately. DIS (and specifically MIS) was always a flawed beast in that the assumptions it was built on assumed declining numbers of ships to build. It also missed out (deliberately?) replacement vessels for a number of capabilities, thereby compounding the shrinkage effect.

    There was NO recognition that at some point, numbers of ships might actually stabilise (or even marginally increase - I know, stiff drink time). The overall idea behind it was laudable, but Draysons (and to be fair teh MoDs) implementation was p1ss-poor as ever......
     
  12. I'm not so sure. The DIS was sprung on industry, which is now having to develop the skills, understanding and expertise that previously resided in the DLO. Some have adapted faster and are doing fine, apparently.

    I'd quite like to see the analysis that took you to your conclusion about the MIS being dependent on a reducing fleet. From what I've seen of the MIS, it is based more on having fewer, more capable and adaptable ships and submarines than in previous years, and transferring some of the risk of maintaining the capability to the contractor, with the DE&S acting as the demanding customer, deciding on what is needed and when it will be needed. This will lead to industry having to reorganise how it operates, with many looking at developing new supply chain and procurement skills, for example, that were previously done in the IPTs.
     
  13. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Not to mention a few other constituencies too, Bristol, Barrow, Farnborough being some fairly obvious ones. Industry is already on its knees and has been for some years (it why I'm over here!) - the total lack of recognition by the political elite of the importance of making something tangible rather than simply shuffling money, quite frankly, scares me.
     
  14. "I'd quite like to see the analysis that took you to your conclusion about the MIS being dependent on a reducing fleet. From what I've seen of the MIS, it is based more on having fewer, more capable and adaptable ships and submarines than in previous years, and transferring some of the risk of maintaining the capability to the contractor, with the DE&S acting as the demanding customer, deciding on what is needed and when it will be needed. This will lead to industry having to reorganise how it operates, with many looking at developing new supply chain and procurement skills, for example, that were previously done in the IPTs."

    Yep - thats what the ABW corporate communications would have you believe and to a degree the in-service support function is being transferred, though mainly because the IPTs aren't manned up to do the job - not to mention the impending 9000 redundancies.

    However, the driving idea behind the MIS has been from teh Rand europe report by the comically named Hans Pung, which essentially suggested that the UK shipbuidling industrial base was about to be stretched by the concurrent build of Astute, T45, CVF and MARS (it might be if we ever order them!) and would then need to contract to some sustainable level to operate at a steady state. So far, incontrovertible.....

    However, the steady state identified by MoD centre appears to be a capacity of around one ship per year (or drumbeat as they persist in calling it). Fine and dandy, except that the existing ships are going to fall off the plot a bit faster than that, ergo a de facto reduction in fleet numbers.......
     

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