Wessex_Man said:NZ_Bootneck said:Rifleman, (I thought that was Chuck Connors, anyone under 35 will have to Google that one),is under the impression that I have never worked in co-operation with Perce, well sorry mate, but I have had that misfortune.
Example. A Welsh Guardsman (GUARDSMAN for ferks sake) collapsing in a heap and crying, 200 metres after diembarking from an LC down sunny San Carlos way, because his bergan was too heavy. That is why the taffs where still embarked when the Exocet hit, cause they couldn't hack the bimble :roll: .
too :mrgreen: . Also don't come the old that was 25 odd years ago, things are different now bollix, as from what I can see it ain't changed much.
Yeah, well, ref the Welsh Guards at San Carlos collapsing, crying etc: you know, mate, hypothermia has a tendency to do that to a man. 3 hours bobbing about in the LCs getting soaked through on what should have been a 20 min run-in to an established beach head! Someone screwed up big time, for sure... and it wasn't Army men driving the things! Oh, and what about all those blue rucksacs from Millets - I'm sure you saw them? - plus, of course, the shoddy boots, lack of windproofs etc? Yep, they were so well equipped! A pish poor reflection on the system, but not, I think, on the blokes. Yes, and we all know about the Guardsmen wearing plastic bags over their boots - keep the shine, see! Reality was that the poor sods were trying to keep feet dry for as long as poss - ref THOSE boots. Truth is, it was a bloody miracle that no-one actually died of hypothermia on that first day ashore.
Ref the Bluff Cove disaster: ships were bombed, as a matter of fact - not hit by Exocets, but let's not be too pedantic and worry about the facts, eh? The ranking officer in situ on the fateful day was a RM expert in amphib ops ... but I'll not cast any aspersions re decisions made/ not made at the time, in the midst of a confused war environment.
As an experienced member of the Corps of a certain vintage, you'll no doubt be aware of the unfortunate "blue on blues" inflicted on Army patrols in W Belfast, circa 1972, by RM; not to mention the occasional ND in Bessbrook Mill, including - in one notable instance - of an 84mm!
Possibly you'll also recall the RM patrols in the Radfan who put fixed ropes everywhere? Funny thing is, however, Army patrols managed to walk/ climb same routes regularly without said aids.
My point here is not to denigrate anyone - we can all, if so inclined, come up with "catalogues of crapness" to cast others in a poor light, and the truth is that in war - as in life - stupid things get done, & unfortunate things can happen to anyone, Green Beret wearers or not!
Generally speaking, you'll find no greater admirer of RM than the average Soldier, and I imagine that the Riflemen who serve in 3 Cdo Bde will be extremely proud of the association and very pleased to be there. We shouldn't, BTW, forget that the original Commandos were all Army: RM came to the role, quite reluctantly in many quarters, late in the day, and only assumed the role exclusively post '45 because it was a means to guarantee the continuation of the Corps as a separate entity.
The tone of some comments here suggest that SOME Marines are a bit "up themselves" and need to get out more. "Percy Pongo" is obviously an object of contempt to some of you - oh, well...! Next time my Brother (24 years service in the second raters of the Infantry you so despise) speaks in defence of RM, I'll direct him to this site so he can see what great team players some of you are.
Well this is a pile of factually incorrect bull-shite:-
1. Canberra's final run south with Percy aboard was very different from the previous ones. The crew of the Great White Whale noted how hardly any training was done by the embarked forces but lots of whinging and whining about dinner queues. A lot different from the Paras and Commandos who had spent every waking minute honing skills during the transit south.
Once ashore the Welsh Guards found that their tailored combats with the permanent stitched creases might have looked fine in Pirbright but were fcuk all good for yomping. This is the problem with taking ceremonial infantry and trying to use them as soldiers. They sailed to Bluff Cove because they couldn't yomp. They couldn't yomp because they were unfit for the task.
Once at Bluff Cove their own C.O. didn't know where they were and neither did 5th Infantry Brigade. It was an accident that Royal Marine Major E. S-T discovered that they were on the LSS and dangerously exposed. They refused to disembark because the LC's that he rustled up were carrying 105mm pack ammo and their Company Commander refused to allow it against the best advice of this RM Major.
This RM Major stormed ashore and attempted to get the Welsh Guards C.O. to order his men off the LSS. By then it was too late and a pair of A-4 Skyhawks dropped iron bombs and the rest as they say is history.
2. After Dunkirk the only effective fighting force left was RM (most of Perces' weapons had sand in them and were in France). They held the line until Perce could re-equip and re-train. As soon as that was achieved RM Commando training got under way and at the end of WWII it was Perce who didn't want the role that RM has held ever since. The same as Perce abandoned the SAS, sniping and any other military skills that got in the way of shiney boots and cake and arse ceremonials.
3. As for blue on blues in Belfast......don't get me started on that one........I worked with almost every infantry unit deployed there and on the border and on good days they were shite. The only wonder was that there were not more 'accidents'. One of the most dangerous places to be was anywhere near Perce at an unloading sangar. The 84mm incident was not at Bessie it was in Girdwood Park. An inexcusable incident and lucky it was 'only' a TPTP. The only excuse I can offer is that the L/Cpl responsible was a Taff and a particularly bone one at that.
4. You seem perplexed that RM placed assist ropes at Radfan? We did the same at Gibraltar Perce. Must be a habit.