New 4th Manoeuvre Unit announced

Discussion in 'The Corps' started by Scottish_Kiwi, Jan 30, 2007.

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  1. A 4th Manoeuvre Unit has been announced by Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram today, Monday 29 January 2007. 1 RIFLES will be attached to 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines from 1 April 2008.

    The Minister of State for the Armed Forces Adam Ingram, said:

    "I announce today the attachment of 1 RIFLES to 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines, from 1 April 2008, as a 4th Manoeuvre Unit. The battalion is due to form up in February 2007 following the merger of The Devonshire and Dorset Light Infantry (DDLI) and the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Light Infantry (RGBWLI)."

    The grouping of an Infantry battalion (1 RIFLES) with 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines, will significantly improve Defence Capability.

    3 Commando Brigade will be able to provide both a brigade at high readiness for operations anywhere in the world and also support programmed operations.

    The enhanced capability is being achieved by making better use of existing resources, and will provide a challenging new role for 1 RIFLES.

    The experience of training together and deploying together in a joint force will also benefit both the Royal Navy and the Army. This continues to reflect a desire to deepen joint relationships between the Royal Navy and Army.

    The Army already provides combat support within 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines in the form of 29 Commando Regiment Royal Artillery and 59 Independent Commando Squadron Royal Engineers, and contributes to the combat service support provided by Commando Logistic Regiment. There are clearly wider Defence benefits as we balance operational capability across Defence.

    1 RIFLES will remain on the Army list under the Full Command of the Chief of the General Staff but serve under the operational command of the Commander in Chief Fleet and the Commander of 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines.

    Regimental personnel will continue to wear the 1 RIFLES cap-badge.

    Straight from the MOD website, however it is still not clear if they are going to commando train all the personnel.


  2. I heard a rumour a while ago, that they intended to put all ranks through Commando training, but realistically how many do they expect to pass?

    Also note the comment that they will retain their capbadge, but dont mention what beret they will wear.

    Do you think the extra support will reduce the demand for RMR personnel, deploying as IR's within the Corps?
    Obviously there will still be a requirement in a Force Protection Role, but it would be a shame if there was not much of a chance to be mobilised and deploy on Operations with a Commando Unit.

  3. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    spenny, if you go on arrse especially the infantry bit there's alot of banter on this subject, It's unrealistic to expect them all to try the AACC, I'd imagine alot will try and in time (5 - 10 years) the majority who will want to serve with 1 rifles will have gone through the course. As members of 1 Rifles they should wear there own cap badge but the Green Lid is not issued its awarded, anyone who wants to wear one has to earn it. I dont see it having any detrimental effect on the RMR, if anything it should give you better opportunities because I can see Royal sloping all the shite jobs towards the 1 rifles.
  4. The entire idea is laughable and simply a way for the MOD bean-counters to expand RM on the cheap. To take what is in effect a battalion sized mix of percy crap-hats and expect them to be Commando fit, integrated and trained is a bad joke. This is simply perce trying to find a role for infantry, especially with Les Paras being relegated to basic infantry duties.

    Much better to expand the Corps by re-forming 41 Independent RM Commando. As Blobby says it is unrealistic to expect 1 Rifles to wear Green-Lids although I suspect that there will be a push to do just that; it's ominous in Ingram's MOD press release that he states that this amalgamation of odds and sods from every county regiment south of Hadrian's wall will wear their own cap-badge but no mention is made of head-gear. The only upside for the Corps will be that they will be handed off the shite jobs.

    It will all end in tiers [sic].


  5. I hear what your saying about earning the green lid mate, but I was under the impression that all ranks within 3 Commando Brigade would wear the green beret, but only those that are Commando trained would wear the detol badge. Thats certainly how it works in 16 Air Assault Brigade (ie even non-Para trained personnel wear the maroon beret but only those that have passed the jumps course wear Para wings).


    Totall agree with you mate. Another way for MOD to boost the numbers, without actually spending the money on real time recruiting. Dont get me wrong, Im sure the Rifles have some fit blokes that are good soldiers, but to expect that many men to move up and into a Commando role is ludicrous. Im sure in time it will attract the right calibre of men however.

    I just cant wait to see them marching together. Doesnt the Rifles Battalions march at warp speed, unlike Royals swaggering in style!!! :shock:

  6. Currently they are wearing their own 'Rifle Green' Beret and the All Arms Dagger. The intent is to get everyone through but obviously this will take time. As for 'how many do they expect to pass', I think you might be a little surprised. For an infantryman, the only aspect of the All Arms course that generally poses difficulty is test week. On the most recent course, 10 of 12 RGBWLI passed.
  8. Well lets hope that we are indeed proved wrong. I like so many others wouldn't like the green lid to be given to anyone without them earning it first. I would say that that is the main issue here!!

  9. 1RIFLES will continue to wear their own beret for the time being as it is Rifle Green anyway. I think that they will actually prefer to wear their own. All banter aside, Army don't want to be mistaken for Marines any more than vice versa.

    The Green lid is now the only lid in the forces that you still have to earn. Paras dish out the pink think to all serving in 16AA as do SF if you work in Hereford. With no jumps courses for the next 5 years there will be an awful lot of pink-hatted ranks indistinguishable from actual Paras because few will actually have wings.
  10. 10/12 passing is not that great mate considering they are going to need to get hundreds through.
    Lets not forget though that the AACC is there for people to serve alongside royal, It is very different from the 32 weeks. I can accept that it is fine for the RA and RE lads to do the AACC as they will be doing a job which is different from a grav, however if these guys are gonna be taking over some of the grav work load i think we are in for some serious problems.

  11. I couldn't agree more. The AACC is not suitable for Army Infantrymen if they are to undertake Cdo roles from the top down. It is not geared for that.
    Having said that, you need to give credit where it is due. Here in the Infantry we are not a bunch of muppets all aspiring to be Marines. I've served in three operational theatres in the last three years and worked with a wide variety of units, foreign and domestic. I've seen bad Army units and I've seen good ones. Good ones, such as 1RIFLES, easily match Royal in terms of Infantry skills that are required for current climes. Should we be fighting in the fjords of Norway then perhaps it would be a different story.

    In short, I think respect should be given where it is due. Much of the Army respect Royal for what they are but I don't think enough is given the other way. By and large, the 32 weeks of Royal basic consists of exactly the same as is taught in ITC.
  12. Yeh, I can accept everything you have said there mate, the places we are fighting in at present with the exception of some parts of afghanistan do not require the same level of skill as places we have fought in the past. However if this is to be a long term move then these guys will have to do everything that royal does, especially the arctic and the jungle otherwise they will just be relegated to rear echelon jobs.

    What annoys me most though is that they would rather do this than just expand the size of the corps and ressurect on of the old commando units.


    very short sighted planning once again by a government who are all to willing to use the skills we have but not put the necessary funding in where it is needed.
  13. And on that note, which I agree with you on, it is time to go home. Thankfully I work with a bootneck unit who are far more mature about day-to-day timings that my previous unit! Long live Royal, Long live the Corps and long live the friendly (yet sometimes persuasive) banter!
  14. The fact that units are being amalgamated just goes to show what this whole thing is about. The MOD along with this government are actually getting rid of manpower whilst making it look like they are boosting it.

    And on the point of 10/12 men passing the AACC...since when are 83% of bootnecks commando trained? No, all of them are. So if they expect the whole of 1RIFLES to support 3 commando brigade every man should be at the same standard every bootneck has to meet.
  15. 10 out of 12 is an excellent pass rate - taking silly injuries and the such into account - as an AACC graduate I say well done to all 12 for trying and especially to the 10 that passed.
    This will be a good thing for Royal as long as the Rifles take it seriously - and want to be part of an elite Brigade at the very forefront of UK Military operations. Chances like this for a 'normal' infantry battalion do not come along very often - the Rifles have a real chance to make a name for themselves.
    Sounds like they do - it is a 2 way thing and is now up to the Marines to give them every chance to prove themselves on the bottom field and on Dartmoor.
  16. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    NZB, at least we didn't get the first foot n mouth I think we got about the 15th

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