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Never thought I would post something like this

Talking to my daughter last night, she's been in a few years now and is old enough and mature enough to reason and debate the current state of the Royal Navy and probably the armed forces in general.
Times are hard for those serving the older members of us will recall similar periods in the not too distant past when we were shafted, piss poor pay rises, but increases in food and accom etc, well these times are here again, however, this time with a significant difference, they've pissed around with pensions, terms of service, pay banding and senior officers who's duty it is to protect those who's job puts them in harms way have neglected their collective responsibility and their silence over these changes and the effects upon moral are deafening.
We ask our servicemen and women to go into harms way and this has never been so evident in the past 10-15 years. We have a time bomb waiting to happen when the guys injured in recent conflicts realise that once discharged help and support are piss poor except in the most exceptional cases. Support such as Help for Heroes etc will diminish as media coverage and our withdrawal from areas of conflict fade from the media headlines.

The economy is improving the civilian sector truly want the qualities and experience you serving members have in abundance, loyalty, respect and integrity still mean a lot in our society.
I can look back now and realise as a relative high flier in my day I could have made a lot more for myself and my family if I had left earlier than I did.
If you feel like the time is right guys GO the grown ups really, really don't give a flying fcuk, after all retirement for these senior guys means directorships with BAE, EADS Civil Service etc.

Its taken me 56 years to realise, sad old fcuk, Falklands 82, Gulf 1 and 2 don't mean sod all it takes a mass exodus for them to realise just like in previous years when redundancies were announced, clever guys took it and surprise surprise 12 months later the services were begging them to come back on much better terms.

IMHO youv'e been shafted too much and I for one have had my eyes closed whilst it happened.

1% pay rise, massive increase in Food and Accomodation takes the piss.

As always for those of you still serving have my greatest respect, your country really doesn't deserve you.

Rant over

Standing by for incoming
 

Sharkey

Banned
The option to strike isn't there and putting in your notice isn't always doable, the forces don't have a voice, bugger about with the T&C of nurses, civil servants, teachers and the box/papers is full of an outraged mob with placards, the forces get a letter to the times or a 90 second sound bite from a retired bigwig, in times of belt tightening the forces are an easy target
 

babygravy

Lantern Swinger
Exactly, the forces lose a lot of freedoms, to protect other people's. They sacrifice these freedoms (and ultimately their lives) under the standing that the overseers will look after them.

When MPs get £300 allowance a day just to turn up to work, would they put up with the shite serving members get, and would they ever make the ultimate sacrifice for their country?
 
G

guestm

Guest
Perspective.

We're still doing alright. There are graduates fighting over the chance to get 18k PA jobs.
 
Why should the senior officers give a shit, they're on the big bucks and regardless of the changes their pension will still be pretty bloody good. Let's be honest all a majority of them care about is trying to please whoever writes their reports and those of us at the lower end of the food chain are merely a means to an end.
 
Perspective.

We're still doing alright. There are graduates fighting over the chance to get 18k PA jobs.
That's right Monty but most do not have the experience, discipline, attitude and ability thatmost service leavers have in abundance (there will always be exceptions). Like many I chose to stay because it benefited my circumstances boarding school allowance etc, many of the allowances have either been stopped or access to them restricted over the past 10 years. The media tends to portray organisations such as the Legion, Combat Stress etc as the DBs, in relation to most civilian charities they probably are, however, resources are severely limited I for one would not like to be in a situation were I depended upon them for help.
I enjoyed my time I have a healthy pension, but I have seen those benefits eroded over the years probably post AFP 75, still better than most civvy pensions but the saddest thing is you really do not have a voice, nobody in the civillian sector, just like senior officers, really give a fcuk
 

silverfox

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Perspective. I am married to a midwife and what is happening to the Military pension is exactly what is happening to the other elements across the Public sector. We have enjoyed a pension scheme that has been generous beyond belief for many years but is now is unaffordable. It's not being eroded, it's being brought into the real world. Same same with CEA - a hugely over abused allowance which accounted for a large portion of the Allowances budget, but paid to a fraction of the total workforce. The world is a different place now friend....
 
It's not being eroded, it's being brought into the real world. Same same with CEA - a hugely over abused allowance which accounted for a large portion of the Allowances budget, but paid to a fraction of the total workforce. The world is a different place now friend....
Dear friend, how can CEA be a bad thing? it enabled the children of uneducated peasants like myself obtain a fantastic education at a fraction of the price. Most ratings I encountered on the rare occasions it was discussed on the lower deck was often be along the lines of "I wouldn't send my child away from home" what bollocks. I agree with your statement about coming into line with the civilian sector, however, can you tell me the last time she deployed?? when she last put herself potentially into harms way, maybe it was trying to find a car parking space in the hospital.

Edited for atrocious grammar hence the shite education
 
Last edited:
Dear friend, how can CEA be a bad thing? it enabled the children of uneducated peasants like myself obtain a fantastic education at a fraction of the price. Most ratings I encountered on the rare occasions it was discussed on the lower deck is there response would often be along the lines of "I wouldn't send my child away from home" what bollocks. I agree with your statement about coming into line with the civilian sector, however, can you tell me the last time she deployed?? when she last put herself potentially into harms way, maybe it was trying to find a car parking space in the hospital.
We'll if that's your criteria for CEA eligibility then surely all of those who are in non sea going billets should forfeit their right to it. Although I'm not a fan of some of the reduction of allowances I fail to see how the MOD subsidising the education of the children of service personnel is of benefit to the forces.
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
Dear friend, how can CEA be a bad thing? it enabled the children of uneducated peasants like myself obtain a fantastic education at a fraction of the price. Most ratings I encountered on the rare occasions it was discussed on the lower deck was often be along the lines of "I wouldn't send my child away from home" what bollocks. I agree with your statement about coming into line with the civilian sector, however, can you tell me the last time she deployed?? when she last put herself potentially into harms way, maybe it was trying to find a car parking space in the hospital.

Edited for atrocious grammar hence the shite education

Maybe not the same as having to face a smoking AK47 barrel but . . . :

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/SecurityManagement/Documents/violence_towards_NHS_staff_from_the_public.pdf

NHS Protect NHS Protect News NHS Business Services Authority

Any public-facing service organisation, public or private, carries the risk of violence from our proletariat, and no more so than those in the medical services which can be a combination of personal aggression, fear or as a symptom of their condition both mental and physiological.
 
G

guestm

Guest
Why should the senior officers give a shit, they're on the big bucks and regardless of the changes their pension will still be pretty bloody good. Let's be honest all a majority of them care about is trying to please whoever writes their reports and those of us at the lower end of the food chain are merely a means to an end.

Utter bollocks.

Been passed over have we?
 
G

guestm

Guest
That's right Monty but most do not have the experience, discipline, attitude and ability thatmost service leavers have in abundance

As many are finding out to their cost, service leavers aren't as desirable as the CTW would have you think.
 
We'll if that's your criteria for CEA eligibility then surely all of those who are in non sea going billets should forfeit their right to it. Although I'm not a fan of some of the reduction of allowances I fail to see how the MOD subsidising the education of the children of service personnel is of benefit to the forces.
The rules have probably changed in the years since I left the service, as an individual who spent most of his time at sea and who was required to move the family home on several occasions I felt it was only fair that my child had a settled education. I agree it was open to abuse mainly from the officer cadre. My daughter, now serving, is following a long family tradition in the RN so I would like to think in some small way she is paying that money back to the taxpayer.
 
As many are finding out to their cost, service leavers aren't as desirable as the CTW would have you think.
Monty my experience of CTW was a fcuking mare they are not the brightest buttons on the coat and are totally out of touch with the real world.
My comments with regards to servicemen and women joining civilian life is not directed at the youngster who joins at 17 never worked prior to joining and puts his notice in at the first opportunity and thinks he's going to walk into 24k a year thats clearly bollocks. Perhaps I should have elaborated a little, most servicemen I have encountered, LH and above, (living in the SW means thats quite a few) have made a success of their post service careers and have found little difficulty in settling down and quickly adapting, adjusting and taking advantage of the career opportunities that arise.
How many of the graduates you allude to have degrees in subjects that have no relevance or use in modern working environments, the one thing a degree has to offer is the proof that an individual can demonstrate a commitment to study and achieve an acceptable level of knowledge in a given subject. If that particular subject is one of the rather obscure degrees that are on offer I would humbly suggest that a LH with his leadership, CDF and initiative would be a healthy competitor for a graduate looking for a job in the same sector as a service leaver.
 
Maybe not the same as having to face a smoking AK47 barrel but . . . :

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/SecurityManagement/Documents/violence_towards_NHS_staff_from_the_public.pdf

NHS Protect NHS Protect News NHS Business Services Authority

Any public-facing service organisation, public or private, carries the risk of violence from our proletariat, and no more so than those in the medical services which can be a combination of personal aggression, fear or as a symptom of their condition both mental and physiological.
What when giving birth??? you taking the piss??
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
What when giving birth??? you taking the piss??

The comment was more general than just mid-wives STM, but if you think that all mothers-to-be are sweetness and light because they are about to drop a sprog then you haven't had the pleasure of meeting some of the pond life I have dealt with in the past. My point was that there are others who are at risk of injury or worse as a direct result of dealing with the unpredictability of the general public, especially in the medical sector, and that can include use of weaponry. The police wear stab-proof vests for a reason - paramedics often go into similar situations and have little or nothing, but still they choose to do it because that is their job.

Someone has already pointed out that their T&Cs are also being pared back as part of an overall public sector readjustment, but if I read your post correctly you think that they are of less consideration than someone serving in HM forces?
 

MG Maniac

War Hero
With respect ...

Some ex servicemen / women do walk into decent jobs on leaving ( I know a ex Chief Tiff whose now an Chief Engineering Officer of a P&O Cruise boat) however I would suggest that as many as do ... there are an equal or probably larger number who don't. In the past I've had to interview a Fleet Chief GI (or whatever that is in new money) for a job that he was totally unsuitable for ... and he'd travelled from York down to Pompey just for the interview ... and that was for a less than £18k job. His comment was that he couldn't find work and he was desperate for anything and I know a WOMA who's more or less in the same boat and yes while experience counts, a lot of companies are now looking for people who they can train up without any preconceived ideas and would be with them for a long time ... not some 40+ ex PO who is supplementing his pension.

The thing about the Pussers pension is that its non contributory ... Ok you/we've had to put up with a lot of sh*t to earn it ...being shot at etc etc and yes whilst in we have to give up a lot of rights / freedoms that other mortals have but at the end of the day the dosh pound notes that end up in the bank is a freebie ... lets face it ... we all know somewone who has never been to sea /been shot at or deployed anywhere remotely dangerous yet they walk out after 22 yrs with a full pensh and the most dangerous thing they've had to do is eat a NAFFI Snake & Pigmy pie! Yes 1% is a derisory amount considering the rise of the cost of living but it's the same for the rest of the public service and our 1% is non-consolidated which means its doesn't count for pensionable pay! And while I agree that nurses etc don't have to face the smoking end of an AK-47 that often, I know very few nurses who have not been spat at / abused / assaulted and worse whilst on duty ... now if that had been Jack he'd have smacked them in the face but nurse can't .. they have to smile and get on with it as if nothing happened! Likewise I don't know many matelots who've had to clean up an HIV riddled junkie, spaced out of his brain on god knows what ... and then tip up tomorrow and do it again! The jobs are at opposite ends of the spectrum ... but when you wrap your car round a tree at 2am in the morning bet you're glad the nurse is there!

To my mind its not just HM Forces that are being shafted ... its the whole of the Public Service and whatever job you do its all for the good of the great unwashed! At the end of the day ... its all about affordability as AP has said.
 
The comment was more general than just mid-wives STM, but if you think that all mothers-to-be are sweetness and light because they are about to drop a sprog then you haven't had the pleasure of meeting some of the pond life I have dealt with in the past. My point was that there are others who are at risk of injury or worse as a direct result of dealing with the unpredictability of the general public, especially in the medical sector, and that can include use of weaponry. The police wear stab-proof vests for a reason - paramedics often go into similar situations and have little or nothing, but still they choose to do it because that is their job.

Someone has already pointed out that their T&Cs are also being pared back as part of an overall public sector readjustment, but if I read your post correctly you think that they are of less consideration than someone serving in HM forces?
Dredd wasn't intentionally being disrespectful and I have a great deal of sympathy and a great deal of respect for all elements of the emergency services with some exceptions, I feel little if any sympathy with teachers and most other civil serpents whose talent or rather lack of it have been outlined in many other topics on this site and who's benefits have for many years been the envy of many in the private sector. But living in a trench, hot bunking, being away from home and family for months at a time is not a hardship many in the emergency services have to cope with.
 
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