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Naval Standards

Ref going ashore rigs, only last month I had the misfortune to be in the RNA while some sort of navy creature sat on the next table gobbing off about how sh+t it was in the mob......

This guy was sporting dyed jet black hair, earing, some of the biggest black combats, straps and chains hanging off everywhere and the most extraordinarly large "gothic" boots with four inch soles and chromed toe caps!!

This fecker even had eyeliner on.........................................................

I could hardly drink my pint
 
Somethings never change in the good ole days men were lashed and keelhauled for making eye contact with an officer and discipline has declined year on year since trafalger according to the three badge men in each mess (are there any left ) I still remember on my first draft a baby wem being escorted down the back gulch by the senior wems down the mess for a slight attitude adjustment after gobbing off to a killick. Needless to say the next day his attitude was suitibly adjusted. This may seem a bit extreem to some and not strong enough to others, but it did work not only for him but the rest of us babies down the mess. All i can say is I saw the way the wind was blowing after a lack of support from alledged SENIOR rates and officers in the matters of discipline and the death of my branch so all in all am glad I am now a civvie with a few dits to bore my kids with between rounds and sunset and especialy when they are doing nines. must now pull up a bollard swing a lantern and spin them the same dit for the 187th time
 
/Rant on/

It must really suck that despite all these "declining standards" the reality is that the RN continues to do its job where it matters - at the sharp end.

My guys are gobby, wear earrings off duty, I'm possibly the scruffiest Officer in the Fleet, yet we achieved V Sat after V Sat at BOST and DCT and have paraded in front of Royalty more than once. We are about to deploy to our hottest operational commitment, and I have every confidence in the men and women above, around and below me. Perhaps you should accept that the Mob has changed, as has the society we draw from, but we still up hold the traditions that make the RN great - tenacity, bravery, fortitude and the willingness to engage the enemy more closely.

If you don't like it, do us all a favour, wrap, and leave it to the rest of us want to be here.

/Rant off/
 
See? VSATs at BOST? Declining standards. The only time you ever got a VSAT was when they were giving out morale boosters before short notice deploying you somewhere shitty.

Anyway, even those at the top admit that in some areas, the standards are falling, which is why there are initiatives in hand to fix them (Dark Blue Line, Branch realignment, etc).

As for engaging the enemy more closely - behave! I earnt my last medal in a bloody great steel box quite safely sitting off the coast line of Iraq in a "hot zone" which could in no way be described as "engaging more closely", especially when compared to the Royals we disembarked during the invasion (sorry, liberation) phase. We do a job, we get paid.

I'm wrapping anyway, so it's all yours.
 
Piglet said:
You think standards are bad in the dockyard etc - you should see this place (have to be careful otherwise someone might sus me!)
JRs calling officers by their first name and vice versa, they all walk in and intorduce themselves a s Hi I'm Jane Doe or whatever - i'ts up to us to guess what rank/rate/Service they are.
Uniform - whats that! anything seems to go here. Caps they're just something to keep the rain off arn't they. Adrift - don't be daft can't be adrift, some one will phone up and remind me I should have been on watch 2 hrs ago no questions asked.
Discipline - what's Discipline

Is this something that started with women at sea or does it pre-date that? I find it amazing that JR's even dare to think about calling an officer anything other than Sir, etc. When I joined you even had to address all the ratings as Sir (though only under training, I hasten to add) or you were in trouble. If I had called Capt.MacKenzie "Hugh" as a Junior I'd probably have been hung from the yardarm! Even when I met him many years later at RUSI, I still called him Sir!
 
PompeySailor said:
See? VSATs at BOST? Declining standards. The only time you ever got a VSAT was when they were giving out morale boosters before short notice deploying you somewhere shitty.

Anyway, even those at the top admit that in some areas, the standards are falling, which is why there are initiatives in hand to fix them (Dark Blue Line, Branch realignment, etc).

As for engaging the enemy more closely - behave! I earnt my last medal in a bloody great steel box quite safely sitting off the coast line of Iraq in a "hot zone" which could in no way be described as "engaging more closely", especially when compared to the Royals we disembarked during the invasion (sorry, liberation) phase. We do a job, we get paid.

I'm wrapping anyway, so it's all yours.
Maybe this is part of the reason that so many people serving and ex no longer feel the pride of years ago . It is not how you are perceived by fellow professionals now serving but also those who built This tradition of tenacity, bravery, fortitude and the willingness to engage the enemy more closely. By disregarding their views you denegrate the hard work and sacrifice of the men and women who built the tradition and reputation you now enjoy. If the modern society we draw on has changed then it is up to the bastions in our society to stand tall say no to lower standards and lead from the front with pride and determination as our forefathers have done before us. Or are we now at the stage in our society when the elite of an elite organisation takes pride in being the scruffiest officer. If this is the case then no wonder that people are now beginning to think that the inmates are running the asylum. All we can hope is that there is at least a core of our great service that has not being completely eradicated by the PC brigade and rebuild it in the fine traditions and standards of our predecessors
 
Piglet said:
You think standards are bad in the dockyard etc - you should see this place (have to be careful otherwise someone might sus me!)
JRs calling officers by their first name and vice versa, they all walk in and intorduce themselves a s Hi I'm Jane Doe or whatever - i'ts up to us to guess what rank/rate/Service they are.

As a serving member I find that very hard to believe, and I have never in my time in ships big or small, in the regular service or in the reserves ever come across that.
 
PompeySailor said:
Anyway, even those at the top admit that in some areas, the standards are falling, which is why there are initiatives in hand to fix them (Dark Blue Line, Branch realignment, etc).

One of the most damaging aspects suffered in the RNR Comms World over the past few years is the same as that currently affecting education in schools - "grade inflation". Nothing boils my blood more than being ordered to give the students under exam conditions "every opportunity to pass" especially if the exam in question is a core competence of their branch. At the same time the pass rate and level of difficulty is lowered year on year; in the "old days" the pass mark was 80% and a borderline fail of say 78% or 79% could be reviewed to see if a pass could be justified - last year, I was asked to review a script with a mark of less than 50% to see if it could be brought up to the pass mark of 70% (it couldn't, I marked it down further!).

If you can't get the pass mark in an exam, then you're not suitable to be advanced or promoted. The RN/RNR needs to cut the pink & fluffy crap and go back to harsh objective reality - if a rating can't make the grade, he/she should be told and maybe helped to plug the gaps in his/her knowledge. What shouldn't happen is the current trend of giving said rating an artificial boost so as not to hurt his/her feelings. This might be good in the short term but when they get to sea and prove that they've got huge gaps in their knowledge its far more damaging to their self-esteem and confidence (and where its an RNR rating, the RNR too).
 
FlagWagger said:
PompeySailor said:
Anyway, even those at the top admit that in some areas, the standards are falling, which is why there are initiatives in hand to fix them (Dark Blue Line, Branch realignment, etc).

One of the most damaging aspects suffered in the RNR Comms World over the past few years is the same as that currently affecting education in schools - "grade inflation". Nothing boils my blood more than being ordered to give the students under exam conditions "every opportunity to pass" especially if the exam in question is a core competence of their branch. At the same time the pass rate and level of difficulty is lowered year on year; in the "old days" the pass mark was 80% and a borderline fail of say 78% or 79% could be reviewed to see if a pass could be justified - last year, I was asked to review a script with a mark of less than 50% to see if it could be brought up to the pass mark of 70% (it couldn't, I marked it down further!).

If you can't get the pass mark in an exam, then you're not suitable to be advanced or promoted. The RN/RNR needs to cut the pink & fluffy crap and go back to harsh objective reality - if a rating can't make the grade, he/she should be told and maybe helped to plug the gaps in his/her knowledge. What shouldn't happen is the current trend of giving said rating an artificial boost so as not to hurt his/her feelings. This might be good in the short term but when they get to sea and prove that they've got huge gaps in their knowledge its far more damaging to their self-esteem and confidence (and where its an RNR rating, the RNR too).



Good god common sense being stated at long last even in the face of the, don’t upset their feelings, P.C., targets, lets change everything that’s old and works etc brigade.
 
hammockhead said:
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As a serving member I find that very hard to believe, and I have never in my time in ships big or small, in the regular service or in the reserves ever come across that.

hammockhead, you may find it very hard to believe but the unfortunate truth is that this is the case in this particular "establishment" and is accepted as being the norm by all and sundry.

When I first joined here I could not belive my ears/eyes. I spent many years in conventional S/Ms, and although we were somewhat more relaxed in our ways, our standards were somewhat higher than this bunch!
 
If the senior rates could still give them a fat lip for gobbing off it might help. You set high standards and try to do the right thing but sometimes the little sods just need a slight cuffing. Shame the top brass put this form of discipline in the bracket of bullying. Whatever happened to the balls in the service? Too much crying to mummy now.
 
... and a degree of fear in case the person PVR's or gives notice. Recruiting figures are still down. Last I heard was that of the three services, the RN had come in last in terms of meeting targets.

Just look at the Transit Division in HMS NELSON; a place to send the "Mad, Bad & the Sad". At one point it numbered in the hundreds. It's not that long ago that we would have cheerfully discharged some of these people for time wasting.

I'm all in favour of having rights. Christ knows when the situation was bad, it was bloody awful, but sometimes I feel that the PC pendulum has shifted too far in the other direction. In my humble opinion the whole lack of standards and pride is a direct result of this.
 
Standards ?We have an officer who appears to be proud that,hes probably the scruffiest,What sort of pride ,or even leadership is that?If you were a DO and i were your chief you would be placed firmly in the picture.You are not only a disgrace to your uniform , you are a disgrace to the navy,and standards havent fallen?
 
Well, all the CPO's in my division seem to be happy with my performance. Perhaps it's because I'm not gobbing off about giving people thick lips and instead I dig out blind to assist them in what they want. They really don't care if I wear jeans or my no. 1s whilst I'm doing it. I am fully aware of standards, and I will meet them as and when appropriate, but frankly what I wear in civvy street is non of your concern. As for my leadership, it's been tested, and found to be very satisfactory, indeed good.

I'm a disgrace to the Royal Navy, really? I must've really conned those I've worked for, because I seem to have my share of BZs (and bollockings when deserved). In fact, the population that really seems to be letting it's self down are those in the pension trap, who have no real interest beyond getting to the end of their 22 (be they SR or Officer). They sit and whinge, with no really interest in doing anything about it.

Lead me, follow me or work alongside me for the good of the Service; otherwise get the f*ck out of my way so I can get on with my job.
 

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