Naval Standards

[SILVER_FOX]

Does anyone else get thoroughly narked off about the lack of standards and military bearing these days? I've lost count of the number of times I see JR’s [but not exclusively] walking down Queen Street, negative headgear, mobile phone pressed against their ear and fag in the other hand. I see it happen a lot in the Naval Base too … and as for bleeding iPod’s. When did they become standard issue to be worn with all rigs?

I get even more annoyed at the reaction I get when I pull them up for it. Where’s all the pride gone? :x

 

[higthepig]

Noticed the rot a few years ago,there is no pride,they seem to get away with murder,is it a lack of discipline?An admiral told me once as a Chief,there are no bad junior rates,only bad senior rates,thats as true now as it was then.

 

[PartTimer]

The problem is well know at the top, and things are being done about it - from the "Dark Blue Line" divisional brief.

Any CLM training must be underpinned by a clear understanding of the Naval Service’s core values and ethos and an appreciation of the Naval Service’s unique history and heritage. We must sustain peoples’ sense of pride in their service and uniform, and promote their loyalty to service, branch, class, ship or sub department, and most importantly, to each other. These values apply to all of us, leaders at all levels, as well as those being led.

Edited for typo.

 

[SILVER_FOX]

The Naval Base Commander (Portsmouth) pushed out a memo on it a few years ago. In it he reminded everyone of their responsibilities. It was inferred [not sure if it was in the memo or at div briefings] that anyone holding a rank / rate caught not enforcing standards would be subject to a bleedin' good rollocking, etc too.

There's still a lot of room for improvement though.

 

[whitemouse]

Noticed the rot a few years ago,there is no pride,they seem to get away with murder,is it a lack of discipline?An admiral told me once as a Chief,there are no bad junior rates,only bad senior rates,thats as true now as it was then.

Strange (not so!!) that he would admit to any bad officers, passing the buck down probably.
I had a couple (ex lower deckers) who were real illigitimates - yet others I met were okay.
It was said at the time that some of them thought they had something to prove to direct entries, and maybe cut all memories of coming from the lower deck possibly as though it was something to be ashamed of.
As a LH then SR I only trooped those that did not work as part of the team after trying to get them to see the point before resorting to the disciplinary path, a thing that I have carried on since I left the andrew - sugar and not sour works better, a thing I learned from an old sea dad.
I've worked with US forces in the past, and they seem to have a pride in their service arm - perhaps there is not the pride, or comradeship, these days in the RN, because some see it as a job and not a career?

Anyway the weekend is here again - have a good one all

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Noticed the rot a few years ago,there is no pride,they seem to get away with murder,is it a lack of discipline?An admiral told me once as a Chief,there are no bad junior rates,only bad senior rates,thats as true now as it was then.

Mike LeFanu?

He used to say that there were no bad boys, only bad parents - though never to the Boys/Juniors under his command at Shotley - this was of course, before my time

It is probably as much to do with the very different worlds we grew up in and youngsters today's grow up in. When I was a kid you'd get clobbered for disrespect and slackness in a manner that would be completely unacceptable today. A PO or Chief who clobbered a kid today would be out of the Service.

 

[Greenie]

Think the biggest problem is that the old senior rates had authority ,sometimes they abused it but no matter they still had respect from the junior ratings.

Present day discipline and enforcing it has become a minefield for Senior rates .

Can anyone define Military bearing!! What are the standards!!

As for walking and smoking --well at the moment smoking in any room ,enclosed space etc is not normally allowed in most places!!

 

[sparkerbuntingnowcis]

As a serving senior rate, i become very annoyed when I have to pick up the more junior members of the service about their military bearing. Sometimes the look on their faces is of total contempt at times, I think this is because other senior rates let them get away it. It needs addressing from the Leading Hand level upwards, then maybe we can get back to the standards we used to have.

Ps. Its even worse when you see Senior Rates walking around in uniform with a mobile strapped to the side of their heads, the kids see this and think its the norm.

Rant over

 

[dt018a9667]

As a serving senior rate, i become very annoyed when I have to pick up the more junior members of the service about their military bearing. Sometimes the look on their faces is of total contempt at times, I think this is because other senior rates let them get away it. It needs addressing from the Leading Hand level upwards, then maybe we can get back to the standards we used to have.

Ps. Its even worse when you see Senior Rates walking around in uniform with a mobile strapped to the side of their heads, the kids see this and think its the norm.

Rant over

At long last a down to earth simple statement that I could not agree more with, I don’t think I can add any more to it. Keep up the good work.

Ps just to show how standards have dropped. Yesterday morning on the way home after nightshift outside Albert gate I saw a killick stoker riding his bike into work wearing his overalls and wearing a hard hat! At least he had one thing partially right.

 

[SILVER_FOX]

Without wishing to sound like a party political broadcast I believe in standards. Maintaining them is what sets us aside from the rabble and serves to remind all who we really are.

I'm not a disciplinarian but I believe in rules. If we allow the smallest to be broken, bent or ignored, then we're inviting similar treatment of the bigger ones too. I have until now and will continue to maintain standards, in myself and others ... but I recognise it is becoming an increasingly uphill struggle. I firmly believe that we're all responsible for setting the example and maintaining the line.

 

[brigham600]

I too believe in maintaining standards, but unfortunately some of the hierarchy do not. I get quite sick and tired as a CPO and a FOSTIE to boot of having to pickup Junior Rates and some Petty Officers for differing indiscretions.

Just some of the things I have witnessed and taken action on in the past few months in Drake:

1. Mixed rig walking from the Senior Rates Mess to work.
2. Junior Rates using mobile phones walking through the establishment.
3. Walking about with no headgear on.
4. Answering back by Jr's to SRs and the SR taking no action. (Rebriefed)
5. Hands in pockets with total disregard of nearby SRs.
6. Foul weather jackets undone, bimbling through the dockyard.
7. Fellow Senior Rates in the Mess in t-shirts, training bottoms etc. (why does the hall porter not pick them up in the first place)
8. Leading Hands not taking charge of others in their vicinity.

The list is not exhaustive and some things are just plain hard to believe when we are supposed to be a disciplined service.

My notice is in and I am currently awaiting approval for early release. Afraid the RN has lost the plot and for me the plot starts at the top. Far too many of our so called leaders in the Ivory Towers who have lost complete touch with life and become far too PC.

So if any of you lot in the Admiralty are reading this or looking at this web site, then take a look at just how many Senior Rates are currently leaving the RN and ask yourself WHY? Maybe a reason why the 2OE signal was so bloody massive this year! That says it all, you are panicking. Stable door and horse spring to mind.

 

[higthepig]

Got to agree with the above and i left in 79,how long does it take,myson is a chief on Bombers and tells me hes leaving cos hes pissed off,and just signed on for 20eten,dont underdstand the thinking of those at the top,who are they?lets have some names,but you wont hear,no guts no glory,perhaps some newly joined junior rate might have more sense and change things back to what his grandad did.,my god ,that will upset a few on here.

 

[SILVER_FOX]

brigham600 - re your reasons for submitting notice: maybe we could use a page on this site for members to cite their real reasons for leaving the service (before their time) ... just in case the "manners" might be listening.

 

[brigham600]

brigham600 - re your reasons for submitting notice: maybe we could use a page on this site for members to cite their real reasons for leaving the service (before their time) ... just in case the "manners" might be listening.

That would be a great idea, but I think those whom sit in the big chairs in the 'grown ups' room would not like it.

I promise to reveal my reasons when I am actually a civvie. Suffice to say that most of it is wardroom orientated, particularly at Cmdr and above level.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

I too believe in maintaining standards, but unfortunately some of the hierarchy do not. I get quite sick and tired as a CPO and a FOSTIE to boot of having to pickup Junior Rates and some Petty Officers for differing indiscretions.

Just some of the things I have witnessed and taken action on in the past few months in Drake:

1. Mixed rig walking from the Senior Rates Mess to work.
2. Junior Rates using mobile phones walking through the establishment.
3. Walking about with no headgear on.
4. Answering back by Jr's to SRs and the SR taking no action. (Rebriefed)
5. Hands in pockets with total disregard of nearby SRs.
6. Foul weather jackets undone, bimbling through the dockyard.
7. Fellow Senior Rates in the Mess in t-shirts, training bottoms etc. (why does the hall porter not pick them up in the first place)
8. Leading Hands not taking charge of others in their vicinity.

First check my calendar... not it isn't 1st April... Astonishing! 8O Things have certainly changed! For 3 & 5 the least you'd expect would be a bollocking, and as for 4 & 7 I simply can't believe it! Are we actually discussing the RN here or the nozzers' entry of the Sea Cadets: in fact the Sea Cadets probably enforce the standards and discipline. This indiscipline is nothing to doing with being PC. It's about lowering expectations/standards and confusing tolerance with a lack of firmness and resolve on the part of the FSL down!