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Naval Injuries

nearlytiff

Midshipman
I think it is indicative of falling entrance fitness standards and that individuals who shouldn't really be getting in the forces are doing so. I'm in no doubt that unfit people are more susceptible to injuries from falls/assault courses.
 

come_the_day

Lantern Swinger
rosinacarley said:
......It is not likely that she got that amount of money without it being someone elses fault.

Ballox. You may be a lawyer, but some of the biggest payouts in recent years have been made to women who became pregnant. Unless they were all victims of sexual assault, how does this fit with it having been someone else's fault? Our incompetent tribunals service also accepted that all these poor wee girls were going to the top had they stayed in and okayed ridiculous sums of money to be paid to people who, at least in some cases, got pregnant precisely so that they could leave before their engagements or commissions ended.
 
It is illegal to fire a woman due to any pregnancy related matters. Illegal as in there is a statute - a law of the land - like the NDA, enacted by our parliament and given Royal Assent by the Queen.

Do take it up with her!
 
At the risk of getting shouted at I do think that this is compensation culture gone mad. Ok she obviously hurt herself doing the assault course, and arguably, this could have been prevented, but surely no one puts themselves in the position of armed forces training and service without coming to terms with the fact that at some stage you are going to get hurt. That could mean engaged in combat, it could mean slipping on a wet deck or in the case of my old man falling off the back of a jeep whilst pissed, or engaging in a dispute with a marine with a plastic cutlery knife, but it does kind of go with the territory.
 
Loss of earnings? Believe me there are people out there with far, far more serious injuries than a broken ankle,and they are earning a living. Too embarrassed to wear a dress,come off it, you should see some of the sights i see wearing a dress. The world has gone mad mostly due to Lawyers.
 
Lawyers do not make laws.

Parliament makes laws, judges interpret laws and lawyers put arguments forward on behalf of their clients.

Ergo - the law was on the girls side and the lawyer was good at putting his case. Are you telling me that if you were in some way injured by someone or something you would not take action? You would turn down £190k?

Quantum on a severely damaged ankle with permenant injury is £25,000. How do you know she was not treated negligently in the sick bay? It happens, as much as the scablifters would tell us it does not. What if she cannot work again? What if she has permanent psycological damage?
 

pots359v

Lantern Swinger
When do I get my compo then? Broken and dislocated ankle, sh1t loads of GENTLE (my ar5e) manipulation to relocate the dislodged bones etc and then drafted to sea, whilst still p7rd to boot!

Just let me know which dooor i need to be knocking on.....
 
pots359v said:
When do I get my compo then? Broken and dislocated ankle, sh1t loads of GENTLE (my ar5e) manipulation to relocate the dislodged bones etc and then drafted to sea, whilst still p7rd to boot!

Just let me know which dooor i need to be knocking on.....

How long ago?
 

chockhead819

War Hero
female hurts herself on an assault course £190k, pongo who loses a leg in Iraq gets told MOD have no duty of care ????????
 
Didn't say the law was right, just said that they used the law.

This is from the BBC website earlier in the year, I cannot find the one we are talking about now.

An Army recruit whose career was ended because of a broken ankle has been ordered to pay back £115,000 damages because she was over-compensated. Jennifer Brown, 32, was awarded almost £258,000 after she was forced to quit the Royal Signals Regiment in 1998.

But a hearing at the Court of Appeal in London ruled the compensation had been miscalculated after hearing evidence from the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

Ms Brown of Warnell Drive, Carlisle, hurt herself doing an assault course.

In making the original award during a hearing at Carlisle County Court in May last year, Judge John Townsend ruled that had it not been for her injury, Ms Brown would probably have served 22 years in the Army.

But his ruling was overturned after the Court of Appeal heard that female Royal Signal recruits only serve an average of six years.

The hearing heard that Ms Brown, who followed her staff sergeant father into the Army, shattered her ankle when she leapt from a 12-foot assault course wall just eight weeks into her basic training in April 1998.

She had hoped the injury would heal, but had to be discharged in October 1999 and became a physiotherapist.

During the original hearing Judge Townsend said it was Ms Brown's "long-held wish" to join up and she left a stable job with Cumbria County Council to pursue her dream.
 
sandygib said:
At the risk of getting shouted at I do think that this is compensation culture gone mad. Ok she obviously hurt herself doing the assault course, and arguably, this could have been prevented, but surely no one puts themselves in the position of armed forces training and service without coming to terms with the fact that at some stage you are going to get hurt. That could mean engaged in combat, it could mean slipping on a wet deck or in the case of my old man falling off the back of a jeep whilst pissed, or engaging in a dispute with a marine with a plastic cutlery knife, but it does kind of go with the territory.

Well she did volunteer to join up and should have known the potential risks. I agree that there is too much recourse to compensation. Whilst in the ROC I volunteered for various bits of medical research, including a spell in Porton Down where I volunteered for their common cold research - the same research the MOD are now insisting never took place and guess what, our medical records have gone adrift! Surprise, surprise - what's new? I was just curious to find out what was tested on me - I've no intention of litigating - I volunteered at 18 and that's that. When I got there and learned the tests were not common cold research I could have demanded to go home, but I didn't (felt I'd be letting the MOD down) - also I'd told my parents I was on a training week - they didn't know I'd volunteered for medical experiments! Do I think I'm entitled to damages? Of course not. I've volunteered for quite a bit of research over the years, and done quite a few experiments on myself, some of them foolhardy, with hindsight.

The real problem is where people suffer serious harm and injuries through negligence by their employers, or from war, the compensation they receive seems to little reflect their medical/care needs. Paradoxically injuries to pride/reputation attract disproportionate compensation for those who can afford to litigate and take the risks involved, which are substantial, of losing. It is those who are injured in war, etc who deserve the compensation, not those who are injured through routine workplace injuries. Most people with my genetic disorder don't work - they live off benefits because of the psychological impact of the condition and some of the physical impairments it may cause. A friend with the same condition, and determination, joined the RN, enjoyed Ganges and left the Navy after several years as a Ldg.Stoker. I have worked full time since I got my first proper job. It's a state of mind and a willingness to work. Well that's my view anyway.
 
It grips my shit that this lump got a payout for an accident like that. Shit happens, when you run an assault course you must expect an injury if you land incorrectly. Who in their right mind joined the police or armed forces and doesn't think there is a chance you might get hurt or killed? If that's a problem, go and work in burger king and beware the deep fat fryer. As for all the pregnancy related cases, there is no excuse these days, you either leave and do the right thing, or take the morning after pill, we have the technology.
Compensation culture makes me vomit, it's a disgrace, I cry for the old days when men were men (broken ankle...hop to action stations) and women were fluffy little things who cooked your scran and cleaned your cabin.
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
I'm all in favour of compensating our people for injuries and wounds received through the course of our duties, however those who joined up on the understanding of certain rules ie: Wrens & pregnancy, right or wrong they knew this and agreed to it when they signed; they shouldn’t have been allowed to claim compensation. I agreed the rules were unfair and needed to be changed but nobody forced these ladies to accept these Terms and Conditions of Service at the time. Bring in new rules - yes! and be bound by them thereafter, but don't do it retrospectively.

There is also the probability that many of those claiming for injuries in recent times should accept some part of the responsibility for their situation, but will never admit it (human nature). The burden of responsibility lies with the employer, but we’ve all been told that H&S is everyone’s responsibility. Many of the places I have served in over the last few years are so tied up in H & S legislation that it is virtually impossible to do any real work and, even with all the buffers in place, idiots still behave like idiots but now expect to claim compensation for their own stupidity.

The thing that really grips me though is the seemingly lack of care in dealing with our boys and girls who have served in a range of horrible places over the years but receive little in comparison by way of compensation for the wounds, burns, loss of limbs and sanity (in some cases). For those who are beyond repair, a quiet discharge with a limited war pension and a few thousand is the best they can expect. The burden is then passed to their families to deal with. So when I read about this girl who has been awarded 190K for her ankle injury, loss of career and the embarrassment of wearing a dress I think – get some [email protected] perspective people.

Rant mode off!! :evil:
SF
 

fishmiester

Banned
rosinacarley said:
Please do come and visit my office and you can meet 15 girls with opinions!

questions

1. Are they single
2. Good looking
3. Gagging for some hot Matelot lovin'??

If the answer is yes to at least 1 of the above I will be round on Friday :twisted: - Core working week WHAT A BLAST!!! 8)
 
fishmiester said:
rosinacarley said:
Please do come and visit my office and you can meet 15 girls with opinions!

questions

1. Are they single
2. Good looking
3. Gagging for some hot Matelot lovin'??

If the answer is yes to at least 1 of the above I will be round on Friday :twisted: - Core working week WHAT A BLAST!!! 8)

Answers

1. half are
2. yes
3. do you have good prospects, a private income, a GSOH, no baggage, and other useful attributes?
 
SILVER_FOX said:
Wrens & pregnancy, right or wrong they knew this and agreed to it when they signed; they shouldn’t have been allowed to claim compensation. I agreed the rules were unfair and needed to be changed but nobody forced these ladies to accept these Terms and Conditions of Service at the time. Bring in new rules - yes! and be bound by them thereafter, but don't do it retrospectively.

Not strictly true. It wasn't done retrospectively; the Sex Discrimination Act had been in force since 1975 - the MOD just didn't take any notice of it. That's why only Wrens who had joined since 1975 were allowed to take the MOD to court once MOD lost their exemption from liability in the early 90s.

I know they signed a contract, but the contract itself was unlawful - basically, the MOD scr-wed up by thinking it was above the law.

Also, one of the problems was that DOs and line managers had written these girls up as though tthey were the best thing since sliced bread - how many people actually get a bad report with no promotion recommendations? A court would look at the glowing reports and assume they would have got to the top and been 1SL!!! Hence the size of the payouts.

And no, I'm not one of the Guardian reading PC-Fascists. Hetrosexual, Caucasian, able-bodied with no firm religious views - one of the few people against whom it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate!! :wink:
 

fishmiester

Banned
rosinacarley said:
fishmiester said:
rosinacarley said:
Please do come and visit my office and you can meet 15 girls with opinions!

questions

1. Are they single
2. Good looking
3. Gagging for some hot Matelot lovin'??

If the answer is yes to at least 1 of the above I will be round on Friday :twisted: - Core working week WHAT A BLAST!!! 8)

Answers

1. half are
2. yes
3. do you have good prospects, a private income, a GSOH, no baggage, and other useful attributes?

1. Good percentage
2. Woo Hoo
3. Yes, yes, yes, DOH!!!, Loads of useful attributes but those have been over taken by last answer. Never mind :wink:
 
The most revealing thing about this whole episode - and several others, for that matter - is that the one guaranteed result of there being a legitimate claim against UK plc as a result of military service is that you will be dropped like a hot stone. If you have a frivolous complaint - and, yes a broken ankle is, in comparison to many injuries received in the course of service, frivolous - you will be compensated to the nth degree, soaking up a much larger part of the defence budget than we can afford, while the Services lose those facilities considered to be luxuries, like competent medical care, so that the compensation pot is kept full.

The typical slippery lawyer answer of "We don't make the laws, we just make sure that our fat salaries keep rolling in by applying them outside the spirit intended" (I paraphrase, of course) doesn't cut any ice here.

If, when the pregnancy provisions of European law were applied in UK, the Services had said to all females that they were out of a job because their contracts no longer had legal standing, what would have been the response of those who had no intention of reneging on their contracts by leaving on pregnancy?
 

imom1406

War Hero
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
The most revealing thing about this whole episode - and several others, for that matter - is that the one guaranteed result of there being a legitimate claim against UK plc as a result of military service is that you will be dropped like a hot stone. If you have a frivolous complaint - and, yes a broken ankle is, in comparison to many injuries received in the course of service, frivolous - you will be compensated to the nth degree, soaking up a much larger part of the defence budget than we can afford, while the Services lose those facilities considered to be luxuries, like competent medical care, so that the compensation pot is kept full.

The typical slippery lawyer answer of "We don't make the laws, we just make sure that our fat salaries keep rolling in by applying them outside the spirit intended" (I paraphrase, of course) doesn't cut any ice here.

If, when the pregnancy provisions of European law were applied in UK, the Services had said to all females that they were out of a job because their contracts no longer had legal standing, what would have been the response of those who had no intention of reneging on their contracts by leaving on pregnancy?

What happened to the standard industrial injury solution....2 Solprin from the Scablifter and a Make and Mend.....youth of today .....blah blah blah
 

brigham600

War Hero
sandygib said:
... or engaging in a dispute with a marine with a plastic cutlery knife, but it does kind of go with the territory.

Ha, ha. I remember the plastic cutlery knife incident very well on the Penelope on commissioning day. What fun we had that day eh? That poor Royal must have wondered what the hell he had done. :lol:

IMHO, its a ridiculous the amount of money being paid out to people for such minor and non-life threatening injuries.

Rosina, I know you are a lawyer and are no doubt all clued up on these sort of things. But fer gawds sake, surely you must look at some of these cases and see that they are just not right. :evil:

In the case of many of the pregnant WRNS all those years ago, correct me if I am wrong, but did they not sign a contract which stated that should they become pregnant they would be asked to leave the RN to have their child?

What about all the servicemen injured during the NI conflict or Falklands conflict and the pathetic amount they were compensated? They were undertaking their duty for Queen and Country and then received a payout of about a years wages if they were lucky. Compare that to this girl who has just received 190 grand for breaking a bone. FFS, it stinks. No lawyer speak is gonna work with me either I'm afraid as I am totally sick of this country and its litegation rules and people being compensated because their boss did not warn them that if they opened a window on the 6th floor and fell off they could be seriously injured.

PS: Have just heard that she actually hurt her ankle the previous day playing hockey, but did not go to the sick bay to have it looked at. This no doubt weakened the ankle area so why did she not declare it. Again, it sucks big time.

RANT OVER.
 
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