MV Ice Prince

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Seaweed, Jan 14, 2008.

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  1. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Some fine footage on BBC of the rescue of the crew from this cargo ship which is adrift and listing off Portland. Recommended watching for anyone who has discovered that the sea can be a bit tricky. Brought back to mind the adventures of Captain Carlsen of the Flying Enterprise about 50 years ago (although his spectacular ordeal lasted a great deal longer).
  2. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Just been watching the footage in the pub, we're all planning on having nice new sheds soon. :thumright:
  3. What, like a nice big metal one with double opening front, complete with contents !!!
  4. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Ships full of wood matey, come on switch on to smuggler mode not crusher..... :thumright:
  5. Ah, didn't realise it was all wood - if you're not too busy, can you get me enough decking to do about 6m x 4m and some railing to go around the edges please.

    I hope it's legal, after all, it didn't fall off the back of a lorry, did it !!
  6. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Apparantly this Gov has made it illigal if you get caught and dont fill in a form within x amount of days, just off to the post office now to get a form.....damn, post office has been shut down because we're janners and live in the sticks... :dwarf:
  7. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Blobb's desire for a shed to rival the Palace of Versailles has linked this thread to a piece on Cornish 'Wreckers' (including HMS Association, Cloudesely Shovell etc down to the Napoli) on TV a couple of nights ago. It would seem that stealing from a wreck has been illegal for hundreds of years. However salvaging from a wreck and in effect selling it back to the owners (by returning whatever and claiming salvage) would seem to be legal (as I understoof it from the TV programme). However if the wreck is not present then surely what washes up on the beach is flotsam and not protected? Perhaps some pusser can tell us the rules on Flotsam, Jetsam and Lagan.
  8. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Boils down to getting caught mate. Least thats how I see it.
  9. Remember the bloke from the TURMOIL who went over & stayed until the end ? Kenneth Dancy, from Falmouth. The 2 US destoyers involved came into Guzz for repairs to weather damage were the JOHN W WEEKS and WILLARD KEITH, both tied up in South Yard by King Billy's statue - they came to our local church at Mutton Cove.
  10. In English law, flotsam, jetsam and ligan are defined as:

    "Goods lost at sea, as distinguished from goods which come to land, which are technically designated wreck. Jetsam (a contraction of jettison, from Lat. jactare, to throw) is when goods are cast into the sea, and there sink and remain under water; flotsam (float son, from float, Lat. flottare) is where they continue floating on the surface of the waves; ligan (or lagan, from lay or lie) is where they are sunk in the sea, but tied to a cork or buoy `in order to be found again. (Originally) `flotsam, jetsam and ligan belong(ed)' to the sovereign in the absence only of the true owner. Wreck, on the other hand (i.e. goods cast on shore), was by the common law adjudged to the sovereign in any case, because it was said by the loss of the ship all property was gone out of the original owner.
    Flotsam was anything that ended up in the sea from a ship, no matter the manner in which it got there, and belonged to the original owner so long as it remained floating in the sea. Even though jetsam means goods thrown overboard from a ship in danger of sinking in order to give the ship more buoyancy, as soon as what is being jettisoned hits the shore, any of that 'wreck' becomes jetsam -and at one time in British history all jestam in this sense was owned by the king. Ligan was, and still is defined as goods cast overboard with a rope attached so that they may be retrieved. Sometimes ligan can also refer to goods remaining inside a sunken ship or lying on the bottom of the sea. Because ligan has a buoy or floating object attached to them so that they can be found again it designates them as having ownership. This form of wreckage or cargo found by other persons must be returned to the owner, while flotsam and jetsam must be returned only if the owner makes a proper claim. The rules of salvage apply to all three terms in maritime law defined as:" Compensation that the owner must pay for having his vessel or cargo saved from peril, such as shipwreck, fire, or capture by an enemy." Salvage is granted only when the party making the rescue is under no legal obligation to do so.
    Jetsam was used beginning in 1575 and the use of the word flotsam can be found recorded as early as the 17th century. These curious distinctions between supplies, cargo and freight washed ashore as lost, and commodities on and in the sea as not lost, no doubt led to the primitive practice of plundering wrecked ships.

    These legal terms in maritime law may have their origins in five original towns that formed the Cinque Ports located along the southern coast of England. Cinque means five in French and their history dates as far back as to the time of Alfred the Great. At some point during the 12th century Henry VII created this federation of townships that included Sandwich, Dover, Hythe, Romney and Hastings. As time went by, the number of cinque ports expanded to over thirty which would have included just about every south eastern coastal ship building village. The purpose of the alliance was to provide ships and protection of the coastline for the King before the creation of the Royal Navy in 1496. Because of this they were allowed a free hand to rule their own areas. The Cinque Ports were first cited in a Royal Charter of 1155 and in exchange for certain rights, these places maintained ships that would be made available to the Crown in times of conflict. The original charter gave the members the right to :

    "Exemption from tax and tallage, Right of soc and sac,
    tol and team, blodwit and fledwit, pillory and tumbril,
    infrangentheof and outfrangentheof, mundbryce,
    waives and strays, flotsam and jetsam and ligan"
    Here is a brief interpretation of the language. Tax and tallage means tax and tolls so in they didn't have to pay taxes or tolls. The phrase "soc and sac" gave them the right to self-government and "tol and team" bestowed permission to levy tolls. "Blodwit and fledwit" indicated that the alliance of seaports could punish people who shed blood or fled from justice and they could punish for minor offences through "pillory and tumbril." "Infrangentheof and outfrangentheof" stands for the power to detain and execute felons both inside and outside the jurisdiction of the port. "mundbryce' was punishments for breaches of the peace while "waives and strays" allowed them to take ownership of lost and unclaimed goods after a year. Finally, flotsam and jetsam and ligan gave them the right to take ownership of goods thrown overboard or floating wreckage.
    The first sawmills for sawing and working up the flotsam and jetsam of the shipwrecks sprang up and many homes sporting beams of wood from wreckage and rubble were constructed. Even whales that washed up on shore were considered flotsam and hence belonged to the king. Many craftsmen would steal the ivory teeth and create ornate carvings. Frequently the ships and men from these towns would prolong the fighting long after peace had been reached leading to open piracy around the Kent and Sussex coast. These swashbuckling privateers on behalf of the Crown, led the way to rampant piracy and smuggling in the area calling for the creation of maritime laws.

    Over the course of the era wrecking history developed an exceptionally dark side with many prayers said and dead men tales told. Some relate how men waved lanterns from cliff tops to lure passing ships on to rocks. A man bursting into a church and shouting, "Wreck! Wreck!" and the clergyman is said to have barred the door to stop his flock from rushing for the shore - while he removed his robes "so we can all start fair". Many people were convinced that the bounty of wrecks was theirs by right, and some were ruthless in claiming it. There are records of half-drowned mariners having clothes ripped from their backs. Sailors were said to recite a nervous prayer:

    God keep us from rocks and shelving sands
    And save us from Breage and Germoe men's hands
    The wreckers reputedly had their own prayer:
    "Oh please Lord, let us pray for all on the sea
    But if there's got to be wrecks, please send them to we."
    (Richard Larn, Charleston Shipwreck Museum)
    Breage and Germoe are parishes located on the coast of Mount's Bay on the southernmost tip of Great Britain. Tin miners on The Lizard in West Cornwall, allegedly became "mad people, without the fear of God" when a ship came to grief, while Admiral Sir Cloudsley Shovel endured the wrecking of his entire fleet on the Isles of Scilly in 1707, it wasn't for long. "Legend has it he was found on the beach, and somebody killed him for his gold rings," recounts Captain George Hogg of the National Maritime Museum, in Falmouth. Coins from an unknown wreck still turn up on Praa Sands, near Penzance. "There's also a cove on Scilly known as Beady Bay, after a ship went down carrying trading gifts," Captain Hogg remembers. "You could go to Beady Bay and find these little glass beads for hundreds of years - and probably still can."
    The Cinque Ports authority weakened over the centuries. In 1348 the Black Death swept through Europe and Great Britain drastically reducing the population and French raids on the ports during the 13th and 14th centuries caused more bloodshed. The silting up of the harbors reduced the size of ships able to enter the area, and finally the creation of the Royal Navy during Henry VII reign from1485 to 1509 put an end to the federation. It wasn't until the middle of the 1800's that the phrase lost the distinction between the two words and was being used figuratively as a fixed phrase meaning worthless odds and ends. By the second half of the 1900's the term began to refer to the rejects of society like vagrants and the destitute or homeless individuals.
  11. Taunton is in the sticks?
  12. You'd be surprised who piss poor these SATNAV thingys are - headlines of the future "Supertanker runs aground in Bridgewater Canal"...............Don't say you weren't warned.....
  13. She has sunk so you will have to swim for your timber.
  14. There are only two types of wood which do not float.
  15. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    The village I live in outside of Taunton is... :thumright:
  16. Is one Natillie? (spelling)
  17. Just heard that Hollywood have this morning started casting for their next blockbuster, 'Raise the MV Ice Prince.' In a quiet Somerset village bereft of timber (or 'lumber' as it's pronounced in the movie), an unassuming youngster (played by Clint Blobby) sets out to win the favours of his childhood sweetheart by winning the 'Best Shed in the Village' competion. After hearing that the MV Ice Prince, a Greek registered cargo vessel carrying several hundred tons of top quality shed lumber, has foundered off Portland Bill, he sets off with his trusty companion Denzil and forty fathoms of pusser's hemp to seek his fortune ........ (Please feel free to add the next chapter)
  18. I know what you mean. I'm in the great metropolis of Bridgwater and can smell all the sh1t, the farmers spread on the fields, most days.
  19. And one is Natalie Wood.......bum bum!!!!
  20. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    ....and the women say..."kiss me where it smells"....but alas the plastic factory is no longer. :dwarf:

    I'm working out of bridgewater tomorrow funnily enough, so if you see a lorry causing chaos it'll be me. :w00t:

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