Discussion in 'The Fleet' started by gregleeds, Aug 22, 2012.

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  1. How often does MCM 1/2 actively dispose of any ordnance? Are the ships often busy getting rid of WW2 stuff etc or is it just every now and again. Same question for Gulf/Baltic deployments; is finding/destroying a mine a big deal or daily work?
  2. It's a big deal destroying mines around here unless they've finished digging the coal out.:smile:

    The salt water floaty things I know nothing about, but unless there has been a resurgence of ww2 types then they are not a day to day occurrence.
    Gulf and Baltic I know nothing about.
  3. Only been involved with one. WW2 sea mine trapped in a Grimsby trawlers net!

    The skipper of the trawler thought it was a big deal! He wanted to save his nets and the RN just wanted to blow the mine and get rid!

    All it meant to me was a round robin trip, Prestwick, NI, North Sea, NI then back to Prestwick with a Disposal Team and underslung load! I wish the navy paid overtime - would have been a nice earner!!
  4. The MCMV units rarely if ever destroy legacy ordnance or modern ordnance for that matter. Biggest white elephants ever. Done two tours of Middle East and never destroyed anything more than a 4lb pack. Civillian contractors such as MUSC have destroyed more ordnance in one year than MCM 1 & 2 have in ten.

    The current threat is VSW and EOD can be carried out by teams at night a lot less conspicuous than a MCMV. Also for buoyant mines, Pouncer Ops can be carried out form any vessel.

    Want to see ordnance disposed of, go to an area team. They are called out an average four days a week. (Cue when they don't lose it jokes!!)
  5. The ******* get paid for their nets. That's why they use old ones to actively drag ordnance, in places such as Tom's hole off of Essex.

    They make plenty out of the Pusser

  6. Do you not feel that's a bit sad and a waste? Call me a bluff old traditionalist (don't start!!) but isn't that what survey ships are for?

    A bit like taking all the weaponry off a T45 and sending it sea-pointless.
  7. You'll still pick up anomalies. Four hulls flying the flag to do what the survey community can, is a crying shame. Why is it our job to survey their waters (yes I get the bigger picture)?

    IMO it's a complete waste of a worked up crew.
  8. There seems to be some misunderstanding here.

    Our minehunters are not deployed on KIPION primarily to conduct surveys although this certainly helps them maintain their OE (Operational Effectiveness). Their main purpose is to be in area, acclimatised, worked-up (including operating with other forces in the region), familiar with their environment and possessing the best situational awareness if things suddenly kick off. This precludes any delays inherent in making preparations for deployment, the long/slow passage from the UK, inevitable defect rectification on arrival, local briefings and getting to grips with things in theatre.

    When the Iranians surrepticiously laid minefields off Fujairah in the Gulf of Oman and the UAE during the Iran/Iraq Tanker War in 1987, it took our Hunts around five weeks to reach the area (link) by which time several vessels had been sunk or damaged. As a consequence, we have maintained an almost uninterrupted MCM presence in the area ever since (ARMILLA ACCOMPLICE, CALENDAR, GRANBY, TELIC, KIPION, etc). I was out there at the time and there are some fascinating accounts of events here:

  9. Good thread,

    I think the thing to remember is that mine warfare is the cheapest or most economical form of area / battle space denial or control.

    A mine can cost as little as tens of dollars, can be laid by many means ,can be old technology but will cost a lot to dispose of. Time, money, man power etc.

    As mentioned previously the hunts/sandowns take time to get in to area, but with seafox poss going mobile and REMUS being deployed that msy be a better option. I'm sure a more current muppi warrior or bubble head will expand on those.

    The biggest areas I ever worked on were,

    UK- route survey and clearance
    Balt ops - munitions dumping grounds clearance.

    Did not do a gulf trip but as mentioned the role seems to be more of a stand by one.

    Sent from my Onda Vi40 Elite - Top Notch Tablets Edition using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
  10. If you look back through the Latest News page and News Archives of the MCDOA website, it will give you some idea of the frequency.

  11. Yep! Load of shit and zero diving.
  12. How are divining minutes kept up on these types of deployments? Skipper pulls up and over the side you go for a couple of hours to have a gander at fishies?
  13. No shortage of minutes investigating stuff on the seabed or performing jetty searches and underwater ship's husbandry tasks but you need to watch out for hazards like sea snakes coiling themselves around the shot rope, particularly at night. :shock:
  14. Sorry NG you're so out of date it's unbelievable. The days of the team getting 1000's of minutes a month are assigned to the history books. Took two crews out and did equal amount of dives in the local yank pool as in the sea. There is nothing to investigate where we are working,unless laid for Ex Shamal. Even then that was one week out of the seven months.

    The lads only "investigation" dives are pathetic sea bed survey dives every so often. Down the ICOS,punch sea bed, back up and inboard.

    You can shout to your blue in the face about diving drills and skills at the weekly chaos meetings, but they don't sit high on twats agendas. When you organise a weeks diving and EOD with the USN it's seen as a jolly by the Muppets.

    The only time the CO gave a a shit about diving,was when it came to mine recovery,so they can gob off who got the most when they get back alongside.

    As for UWE ha, UMC do it all. So in a nutshell- waste of a worked up diving ​element.
  15. So going down to look at fishies then... still beats spending your career looking into a computer screen.

  16. Not sure if you're a qualed diver yet but you WILL become disillusioned with the job when you go to sea. I had a nightmare persuading my sideways lads not to leave due to how shit the job was. You will NOT be doing much diving in the Gulf.

    A compete waste of a diving asset. What the **** we are doing on ships apart from shoreing up the watch bill is beyond me. We should fly out ( an R Zero team in the UK, at one days notice to move) in the event of this mystical mining the Iranian's keep threatening. How long can we dine out on that bull shit. Oh and where the **** can you produce a sea mine for 10$?

    If you're in the school PM me I will put you on to one of my lads' (2nd dickie in DDS) who will tell you the truth about trips (KIPION) for the divers. Not some rose coloured visio of times gone by!

  17. Aren't the mob looking at making bubble heads in to mobile teams and filling the billets with more muppets to ships or is that a long way off?

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  18. Here we go again! Yes I am aware of that, and can read titles thanks, but how often do threads stay on track on this site? Trust me I wish it wasn't about divers on ships full stop.

    It stayed with diving as someone asked about minutes etc. I also mentioned it was a waste of diving element. You mentioned the presence of the hulls outstrips etc. Surveys got mentioned and so forth. NG had a view from the 70's! I am happy with your input about that and to some extent might even agree. However even though the subject has bounced about, for me it is a 100% waste of a worked up divng element on MCMV's.

    With regards to the original OP question, and your ususal patronising line,(the title says it all) do you not think I would have some input, as ordnance is disposed of by DIVERS or seafox????

    If some of the muppets (yabadabber) would like to input, then great. Get a balanced view. However if they don't then what do you want? A view from a killick stoker on T42? PO writer working in Collingwood???? Some S&S two ringer who knows **** all about EOD??

    Oh and what the **** are you doing up at 0520?????
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  19. First heard that when divers were about to walk off ships in the 80's. Good old MCDO's soon put pay to that. Never happen sadly.
  20. Here we go again was due to the fact I feel your a patronising man ( I assume you're a bloke?).

    My point being, you are telling me it's not about divers and I was trying to convey the reason we are still ( and still) mentioning divers on this thread.

    It's not pot kettle. You came out with the classic "the thread title kind of says it all really" line. Can you please point out where I am the pot??
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