Mr Livingstones latest stupid idea!

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by andym, Jul 3, 2007.

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  1. We need to act now before its to
    late

    Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is apparently
    planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing
    an estimated £100M in the docklands.


    Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport
    facilities, rather than a scheme such as this:


    The mosque will be bigger than St Paul's.

    The plan is for the mosque to be so big so that people flying in from all over the
    world for the 2012 Olympics will see it as the biggest landmark in London , bigger
    than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium.

    The vote so far is 56 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community in the UK is
    casting its vote in droves, and as usual the British are burying their heads in the
    sand.


    It is a poor use use of British Tax payers money, especially when our Churches that
    are 100's of years old get no government funding to keep their structures standing,
    and we are still a Christian Nation.
    To vote to "Scrap the 'Mega-Mosque" please sign the official Government petition in
    the link below.

    We need to act now before its to
    late

    Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is apparently
    planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing
    an estimated £100M in the docklands.


    Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport
    facilities, rather than a scheme such as this:


    The mosque will be bigger than St Paul's.

    The plan is for the mosque to be so big so that people flying in from all over the
    world for the 2012 Olympics will see it as the biggest landmark in London , bigger
    than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium.

    The vote so far is 56 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim community in the UK is
    casting its vote in droves, and as usual the British are burying their heads in the
    sand.


    It is a poor use use of British Tax payers money, especially when our Churches that
    are 100's of years old get no government funding to keep their structures standing,
    and we are still a Christian Nation.
    To vote to "Scrap the 'Mega-Mosque" please sign the official Government petition in
    the link below.

    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detail
     
  2. No plans have been submitted. No planning permission granted.

    So this petition is for what exactly?
     
  3. Done
     
  4. Its a legitimate petition because Downing street has approved it. Therefore we are within our rights to sign it.

    the last time i looked we were in a christian country mate!!
     
  5. He's got an entirely valid point, if there is no planning application then there is nothing to vote against.

    fwiw it merely demonstrates the farce that is the e-petition programme when people raise pages based on a chain letter.

    For example where is a link to the 56% in favour?
     
  6. Controversial plans to build a "supermosque" on the doorstep of the London Olympics will be blocked by the Government.


    Alan Craig is concerned about the security impact


    Ruth Kelly's Whitehall department is expected to refuse planning permission for the London Markaz, which would be the biggest religious building in Britain with room for 70,000 worshippers.

    Backers want the £300 million mosque, in east London, to serve as a reception centre for athletes and fans from Islamic countries during the 2012 games.

    The group behind the plans is Tablighi Jamaat, a Muslim missionary sect whose charitable trust, Anjuman-e-Islahul Muslimeen, has owned the 18-acre site since 1996. Tablighi Jamaat was called "an ante-chamber for fundamentalism" by French security services. Two of the July 7 London suicide bombers are believed to have attended one of its mosques.

    The organisation denies any link to terrorism, and has never been banned.

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    A senior security source said that he was concerned about the proposed mosque, and expected ministers to use their powers to call in, and turn down, the planning application.

    The move was confirmed by a senior Government source, who said there were fears that the giant mosque could damage community relations in the area, and added: "We are going to stop it."

    There are clear planning grounds on which the development could be turned down. It is so close to the main Olympic venues that it may interfere with preparations for the Games.

    The Government source said that the planning application needed to be rejected "to give the Olympics a clear run".

    Until now, it was thought that planners would rubber-stamp the proposed mosque, which was agreed in principle in a 2001 deal between Newham Council and Anjuman-e-Islahul Muslimeen.

    The London Thames Gateway Unitary Development Corporation, the quango with planning powers over the site, is understood to support the plans.

    Tablighi Jamaat has hired a lobbying firm with a track record of supporting controversial planning applications, in an attempt to build political support for the project.

    Indigo Public Affairs says that a formal planning application for the mosque will be submitted in the autumn, possibly with the size scaled back to meet some of the objections. A spokesman said: "Our client utterly refutes any links to terrorism. It is a predominantly apolitical organisation seeking to go about its faith in a peaceful way."

    Tablighi Jamaat is a conservative and ultra-orthodox group with close links with the Wahhabi form of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia. Hundreds of British Muslims are sent by Tablighi Jamaat to madrassas in Pakistan every year, raising fears that some may be brainwashed. A leaked FBI memo alleged that al-Qaeda was using the organisation "as cover... to network with other extremists".

    Mohammed Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, two of the July 7 suicide bombers, are believed to have visited the organisation's European headquarters, a mosque in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire. Supporters of Tablighi Jamaat point out that even if this were the case, the mosque would not necessarily be the place where the pair were brainwashed.

    Muslims living near the site, in West Ham, have raised more than 3,000 signatures on a petition calling for the project to be halted. They want any new mosque to draw in all strands of Islam.

    Alan Craig, a Newham councillor for the Christian People's Alliance party, has warned of the "community and security impact" that the mosque would have, and claims Muslims are already moving into the area in preparation for its opening.

    Ali Mangara, the practice principle at Mangera Yvars Architects, the firm behind the scheme, has promised that the mosque would be "inclusive".

    A makeshift mosque currently on the site has been operating without planning permission for the past five months.

    The plans will put the spotlight on Miss Kelly if she is still at the helm of the Department of Communities and Local Government when the decision is taken. Earlier this month she launched a £5 million fund for grassroots Muslim projects, while warning that "the battle for hearts and minds is more important than ever".

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/18/nmosque18.xml




    It

    can hold up to 5,000 worshippers and, while hardly a Timurid masterpiece, its dome and minarets do not detract from what is a rather gloomy bit of suburban Surrey. Funded entirely by voluntary donations from its congregation, it was erected by the Ahmadi Muslims, who also contructed the first London mosque in Putney in 1924. The Ahmadis, who have lived harmoniously in this country for many years, condemn any form of extremism. Tellingly, perhaps, the Ahmadis are considered heretics by the rest of the Islamic world.

    Now consider the east London mosque. Its backers are the Tablighi Jamaat, a missionary organisation that says it is non-political and peaceful. Yet a senior FBI anti-terrorism official has called it a recruiting ground for al-Qa'eda, and the French secret services described it as "an antechamber for fundamentalism". Its current European headquarters are in Dewsbury, home town of Mohammed Siddique Khan, leader of the July 7 suicide bombers, who attended the local mosque. Much of the funding for the Markaz, which will cost about £100 million, is expected to come from Saudi Arabia.

    Alan Craig, who lives about a mile from the 16-acre site on which it is to be built, is a Newham councillor representing the Christian People's Alliance. Notwithstanding his own faith, he does not object to mosques or any other place of worship. But he raises some important questions about this particular proposal.

    "I am concerned about the community and security impact of the mosque," he said. "Although permission has not yet been given, Muslims are moving into the area in preparation. The Savile Town area of Dewsbury where Tablighi Jamaat is currently based is now more than 90 per cent Muslim. This part of London has always been a very diverse community and that is how it should be kept. We can't have one group taking over."

    Mr Craig, who has inevitably been castigated as "anti-Muslim" by those who want to shut down any discussion, said he believed the local community would be denied a say. "They [the council] have not consulted local people at all but when the mosque master-plan is submitted, they intend to give it their formal approval. It is an undemocratic stitch-up."

    It is suggested that the Markaz complex will become the "Muslim quarter" for the Olympics, acting as a hub for Islamic competitors and spectators, something that is surely contrary to the spirit of the Games, which are meant to bring people together, not keep them apart. Futhermore, in an irony not lost on Mr Craig, just a mile or so from where the mosque is due to go up, the Kingsway International Christian Centre, the biggest evangelical church in Europe with 12,000 worshippers on a Sunday, is coming down to make way for the Olympic stadium.

    Mr Craig wants an independent inquiry into the mosque, something that Newham council has not exactly fallen over itself to endorse. Somewhere along the way, there will be a role for Ken Livingstone, the mayor, whose London Development Agency has already signalled that he thinks it is a good thing for London to have an Islamic landmark.

    Eventually, the plans may end up on the desk of Ruth Kelly at the Department for Communities and Local Government. She recently called for a "new and honest" debate on diversity and announced the formation of a "Commission on Integration and Cohesion" which is to tour the country, before reporting next summer, looking at social or economic divisions between different ethnic groups.

    If this really means anything then its first port of call should be Newham, where it can ask some searching questions about the proposed Markaz and its potential impact on the local community there. The sceptical among you might suspect that this commission is just a gimmick. If it fails to take this issue seriously, then you will know it for certain


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/09/25/do2502.xml
     
  7. I say build it - at least they'll all be in one place when the backlash comes and a christian / jewish / buddhist fanatic bombs it... F 'em
     
  8. So how about a reference for Ken Livingstone spending £100M on it, and something about 56% votes in support of it?

    All you've got justnow is private organisation hopes to build........ lots of people object
     
  9. The ref to the percentages was taken from the London Online poll,which has now been discontinued due to "improper useage".


    The mosque has strong backing from Ken Livingstone's London Development Agency, the area's masterplanners, but its scale and paymasters are causing disquiet.


    http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1&subID=866


    Happy now?
     
  10. Independent of what people class this country (christian, muslim, jedi), the government has no place funding religious buildings. If any congregation want a sacred building, let them raise their own funds.
     
  11. Ish, thankyou.

    I still object to the bloody stupid No 10 petition website being funded from the public purse, but that's a different issue.

    The London Online poll being discontinued for improper usage is a prime example of why that kind of thing, without some form of validated and assured ID system is a complete waste of time.
     

  12. Indeed it is thats why there is the set up on the 10 Downing St site.
     
  13. There is nothing assured about it, if you wanted you could set up throwaway email accounts and register as many times as you liked.

    It's a peurile farce, encouraging an already ill informed electorate to assume they have any influence on policy making in the centre.
     
  14. You have to append your address and it is checked against the Elctoral roll.The E mail is immeterial to the process except to return you a confirmation e mail.
     
  15. I just rechecked the information, the only unique identifier it asks for is the email address, and given some of the names that have appeared on petitions in the past it clearly doen't compare the name with the name listed at the corresponding address on the electoral roll. In any case, as I recall, the electoral roll is a local authority document, not central government, although they are available for sale.

    All you need to do is put a legitimate address in, there is no way of checking whether it's yours or not. I just got through with a text address which didn't match the postcode.

    Seriously, assured ID needs something like a fingerprint reader, or a unique card and card reader on the machine, probably using something like PKI. With modern machine readable passports you could get a USB passport reader which would do it.
     
  16. I can only agree with this idea of those who use it should pay for it, with no support from anyone else. It work everywhere else, so why should the tax payer fork out for places of worship? Ken is very wrong on this one, or is he trying to buy votes?
     
  17. I think the main thing is that the people bankrolling it as well as Kenny boy are linked to Extremism.Not a good combo.
     

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