MoD Police 'Sleeping on the Job'

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
...not too long, according to some well-placed sources. Why should the MOD need 60-odd well paid, weapon-carrying, warrant card holders to walk around the outer layer of the 'onion skin' and man the gate (other agencies do the important bits) for a significant amount of money, when they can send in some ex-military RAF Regiment wannabees for a fraction of the cost? You only need one Constable with the power to arrest and detain intruders per shift. Simple maffs, innit?
 

jaggers

Lantern Swinger
#6
...not too long, according to some well-placed sources. Why should the MOD need 60-odd well paid, weapon-carrying, warrant card holders to walk around the outer layer of the 'onion skin' and man the gate (other agencies do the important bits) for a significant amount of money, when they can send in some ex-military RAF Regiment wannabees for a fraction of the cost? You only need one Constable with the power to arrest and detain intruders per shift. Simple maffs, innit?
Yeah but MOD plod can also react to incidents off MOD property. You also have to remember you can get multiple prisoners which you'd need more than one officer for, still some CND types about. I remember hearing that they have there own scuba team nowadays which tries to get under the barriers at Neptune (frankly if they can stick the cold in that Loch good luck to them!)
 
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guestm

Guest
#7
Yeah but MOD plod can also react to incidents off MOD property. You also have to remember you can get multiple prisoners which you'd need more than one officer for, still some CND types about. I remember hearing that they have there own scuba team nowadays which tries to get under the barriers at Neptune (frankly if they can stick the cold in that Loch good luck to them!)
When they can be arsed.....

A more useless, lazy shower of shit I've yet to meet, and I'm in the FAA.
 
#8
The reason they are on the gate at certain establishments is to provide armed coverage for the civilian security personnel, apparently a nailed on health and safety requirement.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
Yeah but MOD plod can also react to incidents off MOD property. You also have to remember you can get multiple prisoners which you'd need more than one officer for, still some CND types about. I remember hearing that they have there own scuba team nowadays which tries to get under the barriers at Neptune (frankly if they can stick the cold in that Loch good luck to them!)
Yeah, I know all that. But off-site incidents can be tasked by local Home Office force and will therefore not be a drain on the MOD pocket. An MDP Constable can empower an MOP (or in this case, a member of the MPGS) to assist in the arrest and detention of an intruder, escorted off site and conveyed to the local bridewell - you don't need a posse of MOD Plod to do that. So again, I fail to see the justification for a mahoosive number of warrant card holding armed officers on site, when the same response provision of service can be achieved using cheaper means (sorry to admit this but MPGS have their role/uses and can be adapted according to the environment. Trying getting MDP or PSCs to do that).
 

jaggers

Lantern Swinger
#11
It would be very easy to swear them in as Special Constables which would give them full powers.
I think one of the legal problems would be the blurring of the lines between military, police, paramilitary, armed civilian security guards etc, controversial enough in the Indian Ocean never mind our home soil. When I was a Special it was always made very clear to us that we couldn't employ our police powers in civilian life, one of my colleagues got in trouble for arresting a shoplifter whilst he working at WH Smith
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#12
I think one of the legal problems would be the blurring of the lines between military, police, paramilitary, armed civilian security guards etc, controversial enough in the Indian Ocean never mind our home soil. When I was a Special it was always made very clear to us that we couldn't employ our police powers in civilian life, one of my colleagues got in trouble for arresting a shoplifter whilst he working at WH Smith
Nothing wrong with him arresting a shoplifter, that would be a perfectly legal use of his powers. There is no legal problem at all in anyone being sworn in as a Special. It maybe that the powers that be will try and put restrictions on you but its for the person holding the office of Constable to properly carry out his duties under the law.

I should mention here that I always think of the Metropolitan Police as the RAF of the Police Service
 

jaggers

Lantern Swinger
#13
Nothing wrong with him arresting a shoplifter, that would be a perfectly legal use of his powers. There is no legal problem at all in anyone being sworn in as a Special. It maybe that the powers that be will try and put restrictions on you but its for the person holding the office of Constable to properly carry out his duties under the law.

I should mention here that I always think of the Metropolitan Police as the RAF of the Police Service
Hey that's a low blow! In the Met we faced problems no one else (except the RUC in some respects) faced. Really no comparison with the rest of the country. My pal Whiskey is currently an instructor at Hendon and go into trouble for calling an ex-RAF recruit a crab. I was actually a special with Cambridgeshire and I think they always feared people would abuse their powers, acting as a ballif etc
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#14
I think one of the legal problems would be the blurring of the lines between military, police, paramilitary, armed civilian security guards etc, controversial enough in the Indian Ocean never mind our home soil.
I don't know what the reference to the Indian Ocean is, but if you mean Diego Garcia, I was posted there as a Service Policeman on secondment to the FCO but working as a Royal Overseas Peace Officer there for 12 months and we were sworn in as Constables, with powers afforded to us according to the BIOT Penal Code (in the spirit of UK criminal legislation). Providing personnel are trained, there's little or no controversy.

When I was a Special it was always made very clear to us that we couldn't employ our police powers in civilian life, one of my colleagues got in trouble for arresting a shoplifter whilst he working at WH Smith
Perhaps different Forces have different policies, but certainly Hampshire allows its off duty SCs (as it does with all their officers) to 'put themselves on duty' and deal with incidents like that, providing H&S implications are considered. Obviously they should report the matter and observe, but as you know, the nearest unit could be some time coming or deployed elsewhere, so sometimes the off duty officer is required to act accordingly.
 
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#15
Having worked a lot with MDP over the past 20 years I have found them to be arrogant, lazy, not there or on course. Try and get one to do something and listen to the one million and two excuses honed over the years.

Empower home office plod to work MoD estates and give MPGS, (hack - spit), more responsibilities or HK's and jobs a good un!
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#16
Having worked a lot with MDP over the past 20 years I have found them to be arrogant, lazy, not there or on course. Try and get one to do something and listen to the one million and two excuses honed over the years.
Agreed. Their ability to find any excuse to turn any job into a "blue on blue" matter and hand it over to Service Police was an art form... :oops: Having said that, I worked with many who were very good investigators, but they were often moved elsewhere into specialist units (MDP Fraud Office has a very good conviction rate), away from "volume crime" and proactive duties or cross over to Home Office forces.
 
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guestm

Guest
#17
I have two recent situations where the MOD police have refused to respond to areas in which they have held responsibility simply because they can't be arsed and they've even admitted it. Happy to disclose the details via PM to anyone interested.

They are staggeringly inept.
 

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