MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales

pg55555

Lantern Swinger
#1
Various announcements today , e.g. :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7409726.stm

http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/autoGen_10842010345.html

http://www.vtplc.com/newsandevents/newsdetails.asp?itemid=749

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i09tIPKqZBPnl_Ol6qpkZXAHUmiA

-------------

There is a short MOD statement on its site :-

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.12810/changeNav/6568

MOD Gives Go-Ahead to Navy Carriers

The Ministry of Defence today gave industry the green light that it was ready to go-ahead with contract signature for the two new super aircraft carriers. Industry is now expected to press ahead with forming the joint venture company that will help build the carriers.

The carriers, to be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, will be the biggest and most powerful surface warships ever constructed in the UK. Once they enter service in 2014 and 2016 respectively they are expected to remain in the fleet for up to fifty years.

Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne said:

"The two aircraft carriers will provide our front line forces with the modern, world-class capabilities they will need over the coming decades. They will support peace-keeping and conflict prevention as well as our strategic operational priorities.

"This is an important day for the project and I am delighted that we are moving closer to signing the contracts for the manufacture of the carriers."
Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Baroness Taylor, said:
"Today's confirmation that we are proceeding with the two aircraft carriers underlines our commitment to both the Royal Navy and to the UK shipbuilding industry. We are investing about £14bn in the Navy and in the maritime industry over the next ten to fifteen years. The future carriers will provide an important military capability and will sustain many jobs - around 10,000 at the peak of production."

First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band said:
"I am of course delighted with today's news which, when the Joint Venture is formed, will enable the Ministry of Defence and industry to sign the contract for the two new aircraft carriers. These ships with their aircraft will transform the UK's defence capabilities when they enter service, delivering air power in support of the full range of future operations at sea, in the air and on land."
 
#3
Emperor_Aurelius said:
Just to point out a few comments appearing on this topic in another thread in current affairs. If its FAA chat though, count me out!
Built to keep a large number of Labour voters in work and then sold to whom? No problem with keeping shipbuilders in work.
But why build them purely for that purpose only to sell them to Chile Nigeria for scrap prices, then to find that's where they end up a few years after completion. Gillette benefits . British Taxpayers pay
 

geoffg

Lantern Swinger
#6
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

Would that be the same French who were selling Exocets to Argentina a few years ago??
geoff(ers) :nemo:
 
#7
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

letthecatoutofthebag said:
I heard about the Joint Anglo-French Carrier force some while ago (I think whilst on ICSC(M) last year). IIRC, this is part of the European RRF that forms part of the EU Common Defence and Security Policy that requires a Division (?) sized force available at a certain notice, incidently, AFAIK no nation has yet committed any troops to this RRF (but I may be wrong). The plan was for one of the four French/British Carriers (2 x CVF, 1 x PAN (Charles De Gaule), 1 x PA2 (their version of CVF)) to be available to support this force. There would not (beyond the normal exchange jobs) be a jointly manned ship or a British ship deployed on French tasking (or vice versa). The Carriers would be allocated to the EU Force just in the same we the RN currently alloccates its FF/DD to the various Nato Forces and RRF and, therefore, would not interfere with their routine tasking
Pardon?
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
#8
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

geoffg said:
Would that be the same French who were selling Exocets to Argentina a few years ago??
geoff(ers) :nemo:
Could be interesting in any future conflict where we may be opposing an ally/business partner of the cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys - one flat-top operated by the RN, with the other being operated by the Frogs under contract!
 
#9
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

FlagWagger said:
geoffg said:
Would that be the same French who were selling Exocets to Argentina a few years ago??
geoff(ers) :nemo:
Could be interesting in any future conflict where we may be opposing an ally/business partner of the cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys - one flat-top operated by the RN, with the other being operated by the Frogs under contract!
We would lose. The French retained their Overseas Dependencies as part of Metropolitan France. They still use a form of French Franc.
We surrendered 90% of our overseas territories. The French have facilities remaining world-wide. We have the Turks and Caicos Islands and the South Sandwich Islands but it looks as if oil is to be discovered in the Falklands so Argentina is purchasing vast quantities of exocet missiles from our Fench allies. To what avail?
 
#10
I must quote Lord Nelson on this one:
'You must consider every man your enemy who speaks ill of your king:and..you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil.'
 
#11
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

Contributor mode

With reference to the two new carriers and my thoughts on how the carriers will be defended circa 2016.

I am currently reading "British Destroyers and Frigates (The Second World War and After) by Norman Friedman ISBN 1 86176 137 6. On page 261. leading up to the building of HMS Bristol as the AA defence for the then planned carriers. The Admiralty at the time considered a Carrier task force would require a minimum ASW Protection of One Nuclear Submarine, two helicopters airborne and one ready to fly on deck, escort or carrier. Plus three, long range sonar(LRS), Ikara fitted A/S escorts plus another LRS fitted escort which could be part of the AA defence. They go on to say when they were replenishing at sea and slower and more open to attack they would require then at least six escorts with LRS, two with Ikara and four with Limbo plus two armed helicopters in the air. This was for a USSR threat.

Now many other nations have both nuclear and very efficient conventional submarines such as the Gotland, Collins (took out a fully escorted USN CVA in major war games three years ago), 212 German design etc. Just how do the RN intend to defend these carriers with if lucky, one Astute the T class will then be thirty years old and no longer fit for purpose as will be the 16 to 30 year old A/S force of sixteen A/S frigates, of which we can expect between five and eight operational to protect all our Military and Commercial mobile and fixed maritime assets. Yet still we have no sign of any new A/S assets in the pipeline.

We may have two nice new shiny carriers in 2016 but will they be able to go to sea with out the protection and agreement with our European neighbors?


Nutty
 
#12
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

Nutty said:
Contributor mode

With reference to the two new carriers and my thoughts on how the carriers will be defended circa 2016.

I am currently reading "British Destroyers and Frigates (The Second World War and After) by Norman Friedman ISBN 1 86176 137 6. On page 261. leading up to the building of HMS Bristol as the AA defence for the then planned carriers. The Admiralty at the time considered a Carrier task force would require a minimum ASW Protection of One Nuclear Submarine, two helicopters airborne and one ready to fly on deck, escort or carrier. Plus three, long range sonar(LRS), Ikara fitted A/S escorts plus another LRS fitted escort which could be part of the AA defence. They go on to say when they were replenishing at sea and slower and more open to attack they would require then at least six escorts with LRS, two with Ikara and four with Limbo plus two armed helicopters in the air. This was for a USSR threat.

Now many other nations have both nuclear and very efficient conventional submarines such as the Gotland, Collins (took out a fully escorted USN CVA in major war games three years ago), 212 German design etc. Just how do the RN intend to defend these carriers with if lucky, one Astute the T class will then be thirty years old and no longer fit for purpose as will be the 16 to 30 year old A/S force of sixteen A/S frigates, of which we can expect between five and eight operational to protect all our Military and Commercial mobile and fixed maritime assets. Yet still we have no sign of any new A/S assets in the pipeline.

We may have two nice new shiny carriers in 2016 but will they be able to go to sea with out the protection and agreement with our European neighbors?


Nutty
Don't worry Nutty I am sure the RAF manage to protect them for us, just as they have done since CVA01 was cancelled.
 
#13
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

geoffg said:
Would that be the same French who were selling Exocets to Argentina a few years ago??
geoff(ers) :nemo:
And the same British that sold the Argies warships :thumright:
 
#15
An interesting article in this month's DE&S rag on the CVF tank tests;
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9D92A487-EDD3-4056-A7D6-9A5FFAA8A0FC/0/desiderIssue6October08A4.pdf

The model took three months to build
and completed around 800 individual runs
in the Ocean Basin. Testing went on for up
to 10 hours a day with more than
30 data channels – transmitted
by wi-fi up to 50 times a second
from model to shore – recording,
among many other things, rudder
positions, forces and torques,
propeller rpm, stabiliser positions,
turning ability and zigzags at
varying speeds in calm and stormy
seas. There is, in theory, virtually
nothing that the future carrier
cannot do that testing has not
already revealed.
“It has phenomenal
manoeuvrability for its size,†said
Mr Ireland.
“It may be the biggest ship in the Royal
Navy but it does turn well!â€
 
#16
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

Thats Good POL :thumright: Any Virtual Cat launches and Arrestor Wire Recoverys :salut: ??? Excuse my pet subject!!
 
#17
Re: MOD go-ahead for HMSs Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wale

scouse said:
Any Virtual Cat launches and Arrestor Wire Recoverys :salut: ??? Excuse my pet subject!!
Virtually none!!! :thumright:

Don'tcha just love the theory.

Then the real McKoy comes along and it's bugger all like the simulations of models!!!!

"But it worked in the tank"!!!! :sign5:
 
#18
"Once they enter service in 2014 and 2016 respectively they are expected to remain in the fleet for up to fifty years."

Is that including the "extended Readiness" they will go into in 2020 & 2022?
 

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