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MoD CS Bonus (nth outing on subject for the bus)

Re: Mail: "Indefensible! MoD Pen-Pushers Set For Record Bonu

Only a fifth of the workforce missed out on bonuses, raising suspicions that they are a routine part of salary.

Well of course they bloody are because that was part of the con trick. If your performance is crap and your on warnings you get bugger all. If you're OK, you get a "bonus". IF you are better than OK you get a bigger "bonus".

An MoD spokesman said: ‘These are not bonuses, but a proportion of overall salary which is linked to performance. These awards are non-pensionable and have to be earned each year.

How many lines of perspective in a sea of emotive bollox? Of course, when some f**kwit called them a "bonus", "bonus" was the "in" commercial (and I don't mean Contracts wallahs) management buzz word. Another home goal.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
Re: MOD Bonus, for ???

Already done.

If you are feeling your hackles rising, just sign out the 'slightly miffed moped', as the 'concerned MPV' will probably not be required, let alone the 'outrage bus'.

The bonus system is part of the full remuneration package for civil serpents, and must be looked at in concert with their rather poor basic pay.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
Re: MOD Bonus, for ???

Joe_Crow said:
Already done.

If you are feeling your hackles rising, just sign out the 'slightly miffed moped', as the 'concerned MPV' will probably not be required, let alone the 'outrage bus'.

The bonus system is part of the full remuneration package for civil serpents, and must be looked at in concert with their rather poor basic pay.

When you say Civil Servant Joe, I take it you reference Juniors.
The average senior civil servant earns in excess of £60,000 a year.
As a senior Paramedic (Team Leader) I was on around £34,000 plus expenses such as shift allowance and travel remunerations. I did not however have a desk and the time to sit on my fat arse.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
Re: MOD Bonus, for ???

Rumrat said:
.... When you say Civil Servant Joe, I take it you reference Juniors....

The only ones I have any real knowledge of is those I have worked alongside when in shore drafts. Their basic pay is piss-poor, especially compared with what they (skilled tradesmen) could earn in the private sector. The bonuses helped bring it back towards that level.

It should come as no surprise that those further up the ladder get paid more for (apparently) doing less.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Define "Junior Civil Servants", Rumrat? :?

As Joe says, basic pay is extremely poor, when compared to their equivalent military grades or contemporaries in the private sector. For example, a MOD Grade C2 is supposed to hold the same position of authority as a Lt Cdr, yet receives pay similiar to that of a Cpl/LH. How is that fair? Likewise, the bonus scheme is awarded to all those of the same Grade, regardless of their specialisation. So a C2 in a Supply Chain role has to compete for a bonus against, say, a Scientist or Technical Manager. Who is more likely to get it?

Yes, some might argue "if you don't like it, leave and work elsewhere". But many forget that CSs do the job for the same reason we do - because they are proud to provide a service. CSs provide vital technical and specialist skills that service personnel do not have or cannot offer because of lack of experience, training or qualifications, etc. But I am often shocked and stunned by the manner and attitude displayed by service personnel towards civil servants working alongside them, often with superior grades and positions that they have earned. If CSs wore uniform and gold braid then I doubt they would be spoken to the way I have seen time and time again. Even Grade E - the lowest CS Band - is equivalent to a Warrant Officer, yet you would not think so according to my experience so far... :oops:

It's a wonder more of them don't decide to leave - then MOD would be buggered! :shock:
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
Here we go again. Uninformed drivel and prejudice masquerading as legitimate comment. Not all CS sit on their arrse, not all who do are loafing their tits off. In many cases I find their work ethic superior to those in uniform. FFS, the RN hand out bonuses to some people for joining up!

Uniformed ranks are on a rate approximately twice that of their MoD CS 'equivalents'. Those of us who have had CS line managers can find themselves in the position of earning £20k more than their boss.

POL knows what he's talking about. You'd think his riposte would be sugar in the diesel tank of the bus, but no, a crowd of the clueless and internet enabled will be along in a minute to help push it.

Joe Crow wrote
It should come as no surprise that those further up the ladder get paid more for (apparently) doing less.

Unfortunately to the cadre whose Service experience is limited to uckers, tots and tinnies; it does.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
... Even Grade E - the lowest CS Band - is equivalent to a Warrant Officer, yet you would not think so according to my experience so far... :oops:

I think you must have that wrong. I'm sure I had Band Ds working for me. IIRC one of the C bands was Lt/WO equivalent, Ds were SR level (normally equated to CPO) and Es were somewhere below that. Though, to be honest, I knew the relative positions of all those in my proximity without necessarily being aware of their bands.
 
G

guestm

Guest
Re: MOD Bonus, for ???

Rumrat said:
When you say Civil Servant Joe, I take it you reference Juniors.
The average senior civil servant earns in excess of £60,000 a year.
As a senior Paramedic (Team Leader) I was on around £34,000 plus expenses such as shift allowance and travel remunerations. I did not however have a desk and the time to sit on my fat arse.

The majority of those working for the Inland revenue for instance are on 14 - 19k a year.

Hardly well paid.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
Re: MOD Bonus, for ???

Montigny-La-Palisse said:
Rumrat said:
When you say Civil Servant Joe, I take it you reference Juniors.
The average senior civil servant earns in excess of £60,000 a year.
As a senior Paramedic (Team Leader) I was on around £34,000 plus expenses such as shift allowance and travel remunerations. I did not however have a desk and the time to sit on my fat arse.

The majority of those working for the Inland revenue for instance are on 14 - 19k a year.

Hardly well paid.

Yes but they are not classed as "senior" civil servants.
I believe that G scale and above are.
I worked for the IR just after I came out the mob. Junior scale of course.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/performance/payscales.html
 
G

guestm

Guest
So did I briefly, in the mid-nineties (God my CV is on here today). As a revenue assistant on 8k p.a. I can confirm that everyone in our office dug out blind. To say all civil servants are well paid loafers is horseshit.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
Montigny-La-Palisse said:
So did I briefly, in the mid-nineties (God my CV is on here today). As a revenue assistant on 8k p.a. I can confirm that everyone in our office dug out blind. To say all civil servants are well paid loafers is horseshit.

I think you will find I did not say that. I said I did not have a desk and the luxury to sit on my arse all day when referring to the top echelon of civil servants.
As a junior employee I worked like a fuckin n....r and had minimum breaks to boot.
And in passing how did you work for the IRS whilst in the mob? 8O
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
rumrat wrote
I believe that G scale and above are.

The old Grade 7 is now B2 (has been for ages), Captain equivalent (don't die in a ditch over equivalents) and is on I believe mid - high £40 k. As spb says above, much more junior ( in rank, qualifications and responsibility) service personnel are on that and can get more time on the golf course when working ashore.
 

Gunz_45

Badgeman
Keeping the pay low and awarding an annual bonus means subsequent lower pension payments; that's the real reason behind this crap scheme - to save money over the long term. CS's that I've met have a real pride in what they do without the recognition of wearing a uniform and without decent pay; we should be supporting and encouraging them, not taking every "Daily Mail" opportunity to belittle them!
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
CS's that I've met have a real pride in what they do without the recognition of wearing a uniform and without decent pay; we should be supporting and encouraging them, not taking every "Daily Mail" opportunity to belittle them!

And pause to let that sink into thicker skulls.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
Seadog said:
And pause to let that sink into thicker skulls.

To be fair though, no-one on this thread has yet had a proper pop at the CS. Okay, so RR has said that some of those high up seem to be very well rewarded without the bonus, but also pointed out that those at the bottom were paid poorly, and Trelawney seemed about to drive the bus off before it stalled, but the overwhelming position seems to be a broad concensus that the bonus is not a waste of taxpayer's money. It would be good, therefore, if you desisted from treating the readership on here as if they were naught but callow youths, and grandstanding, or I shall feel compelled to disagree with you just for balance.
 

trelawney126

War Hero
Trelawney posted it as it was relevant to MOD. Not being a civil servant, or having intimate knowledge of the pay structures employed within MOD, I posted in order to get an impartial opinion in a forum that is bound to have a few experts. Not to flash up the outrage bus. If I want to flash up the bus I will post on Diamond Lils
I believe that the majority of posters on Current Affairs. post to get an impartial. balanced opinion to articles, which appear in the nationals. The replies so far have given me a balanced opinion.
However I do recognise the hostility of some the replies and will try my best to keep your blood pressures lower should I post again :wink:
 
G

guestm

Guest
Rumrat said:
And in passing how did you work for the IRS whilst in the mob? 8O

I didn't, it was my last civilian job before I joined. In fact it was the tipping point.
 

Joe_Crow

War Hero
Re: MoD Bonus (nth outing on subject for the bus)

trelawney126 said:
MOD Bonus, for ???

That was the title that you gave to the thread you started. Don't at this stage start donning the green Burberry, as it doesn't fit you very well.
 
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