Military Training For Moslems by British Army
- Thread starter oldseadog
- Start date
yes mate, it's for real........
however it's just targeted as a taster weekend for 40 odd teenagers from the midlands, just like the royal nayv does...........
to be honest if the kids have the aptitude and the ability to join the best infantry army in the world then crack on! It doesn't matter which religion they follow surely?
They are even going to run it as a competition and get the parents in to watch the last section of it and obviously the prize giving at the end.Proud parents, a cracking weekend of running around in green, throwing yourself and your mates over a "proper" assault course.....those kids are going to have a whale of a time and it may change some personal views along the way..............
I say go to it, every little helps and if they hadn't advertised the fact that the majority of the kids come from moslem backgrounds do you think it would have recieved the press coverage?
however it's just targeted as a taster weekend for 40 odd teenagers from the midlands, just like the royal nayv does...........
to be honest if the kids have the aptitude and the ability to join the best infantry army in the world then crack on! It doesn't matter which religion they follow surely?
They are even going to run it as a competition and get the parents in to watch the last section of it and obviously the prize giving at the end.Proud parents, a cracking weekend of running around in green, throwing yourself and your mates over a "proper" assault course.....those kids are going to have a whale of a time and it may change some personal views along the way..............
I say go to it, every little helps and if they hadn't advertised the fact that the majority of the kids come from moslem backgrounds do you think it would have recieved the press coverage?
slim
War Hero
During my time in the RN one of my best oppo's was a muslim. He was a bit different from what seems to be the present day variety though and enjoyes a beer or two. Not allowed to give his name but in about 1987 he was the SMR on Manchester flight. I'm sure that anyone on the manch at that time would have known what a great guy he was.
Not all muslims are terrorists
Not all muslims are terrorists
golden_rivet
GCM
The Indian Army was happy to exploit the martial tradition of all its ethnic groups. In all likelihood many of these kids grandfathers or even great grandfathers have served under british flags so good luck to them.
Greenie the Catholics may have had the Inquisition which you would have read about in your protestant Christian history books, but Henry VIII inspired some complete nutters to commit out and out atrocities.
The point is we are bloody terrible at applying our bigotry to whole sectors of the community with very little influence. Just look at how we view the French!.......................................hang on maybe we aren't always wrong :lol:
The point is we are bloody terrible at applying our bigotry to whole sectors of the community with very little influence. Just look at how we view the French!.......................................hang on maybe we aren't always wrong :lol:
brigham600
War Hero
All religions have had their days of tyranny and been guilty of carrying out awful atrocities. Who is to say which one has been or is the worst.
Americanbrit
Newbie
Hope they are giving Christianity sensitivity training to the other side as well.
dubaipusser
Lantern Swinger
We need to see a lot more of this - it is a graphic example of inclusion at a time when opponents to British/Western principles are citing examples of a fortress mentality and overt anti-Moslem activities.
This sort of thing (regrettably with a military edge to it which is unfortunate) demonstrates that people are people first and a mixed cultural character (which is the britain of today) makes for a rich and positive society!
That said, I am sure that there will also be Moslem trouble-makers who will find a reason why this is 'subversive' and may even attack the kids involved and their parents for being lackeys while blaming the British Army for trying to train traitors to the Moslem cause - what a bloody mess eh?
This sort of thing (regrettably with a military edge to it which is unfortunate) demonstrates that people are people first and a mixed cultural character (which is the britain of today) makes for a rich and positive society!
That said, I am sure that there will also be Moslem trouble-makers who will find a reason why this is 'subversive' and may even attack the kids involved and their parents for being lackeys while blaming the British Army for trying to train traitors to the Moslem cause - what a bloody mess eh?
bunnyjumper
Lantern Swinger
I thought the British armed forces had been training muslims for years. Our own armed forces have quite a few, and they're as good as the next guy. Why should it be a surprise that some kiddies from Brum have been having a bit of a taster. They're entitled to join up if they want.
Now on the other hand, if we were taking groups from the Iranian army for training, then that would be a different matter entirely.
Now on the other hand, if we were taking groups from the Iranian army for training, then that would be a different matter entirely.
RNMA
MIA
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that all muslims are terrorists, i just think the point being made was that due to todays climate of terrorists and constant reports that thousands of young "muslims" are being converted to radical islam and wanting to destroy British society etc etc (I'm not saying its true that so many are, but when its constantly in the "press" the majority of people believe it is) so therefore, having young muslims getting military training could make some people feel a little uncomfortable. I mean, how would people have felt if there was an Army Cadet centre on the Falls Rd during the 70's and 80's training young catholics on militiary training/shooting etc???
Now that that is said, i personally think it is a great idea and would be a class weekend i myself would love to go on and i hope they truely enjoy themselves, and as was said before, could change any potential underlying personal views regarding........well you know whatever it is that turns people "radical islam". :lol: :lol:
Now that that is said, i personally think it is a great idea and would be a class weekend i myself would love to go on and i hope they truely enjoy themselves, and as was said before, could change any potential underlying personal views regarding........well you know whatever it is that turns people "radical islam". :lol: :lol:
How on earth could you justify excluding muslim kids from a weekend like this! Can you imagine a poster up in a school corridor join us for a weekend of fun and adventure, see first hand what army life is like, open to all except muslims.
Strikes me that sort of thinking will send young muslims straight into the arms of waiting radicals.
Strikes me that sort of thinking will send young muslims straight into the arms of waiting radicals.
oldseadog
War Hero
Just by altering a few words, I will throw your argument back.Seanie said:
"How on earth could you justify excluding non-muslim kids from a weekend like this! Can you imagine a poster up in a school corridor join us for a weekend of fun and adventure, see first hand what army life is like, open only to muslims."
So, everybody except muslims is excluded!
My comment is that if there were a freebie, fun weekender specifically for white English youths, the EOps would have a field day!
Inclusion - fine. Segregation by colour, race or religion - for whatever reason should be a big no-no!
This is the point behind the post.
OSD
watch_and_shoot
War Hero
I don’t think OSD was suggesting for a second that all Muslims are terrorists, but a couple of points spring to mind.
1. There are always going to be bad apples within a group. Are extensive background checks going to be carried out, to ensure the families of these kids are not in any way linked to an extremist group.
2. Many teenagers are now being groomed within the confines of the Mosque, particularly whilst they are young and impressionable. If they have pongo training surely that will make them a bigger target for extremists, so what do we do to prevent that?
3 I remember reading a post on ARRSE, by a young Muslim lad who was serving in the British Army. He said he was proud to be British and serve in the Army, however he said that his faith and religion prevented him from killing another Muslim. I imagine this is going to be a common feeling amongst Muslim soldiers in the forces. Now considering our area of operations is going to be in the middle east for the foreseeable future, let me ask this question. Would you want this lad as your oppo, when your knee deep in shite in the sandpit and your life depends on him pulling the trigger?
I don’t think all Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism, but there is a shit load of them out there who do a good job of making us feel that way.
Spenny
1. There are always going to be bad apples within a group. Are extensive background checks going to be carried out, to ensure the families of these kids are not in any way linked to an extremist group.
2. Many teenagers are now being groomed within the confines of the Mosque, particularly whilst they are young and impressionable. If they have pongo training surely that will make them a bigger target for extremists, so what do we do to prevent that?
3 I remember reading a post on ARRSE, by a young Muslim lad who was serving in the British Army. He said he was proud to be British and serve in the Army, however he said that his faith and religion prevented him from killing another Muslim. I imagine this is going to be a common feeling amongst Muslim soldiers in the forces. Now considering our area of operations is going to be in the middle east for the foreseeable future, let me ask this question. Would you want this lad as your oppo, when your knee deep in shite in the sandpit and your life depends on him pulling the trigger?
I don’t think all Muslims are terrorists or support terrorism, but there is a shit load of them out there who do a good job of making us feel that way.
Spenny
dubaipusser
Lantern Swinger
Was it only open to Moslem kids then? Not seen the ad or any supporting literature so I don't know. Similarly nothing in the thread states that non-Moslems were to be excluded (unless I have missed something).oldseadog said:
Otherwise - agree entirely with your inclusion vs segregation line.
I think this was an Equal Opportunities issue with the Army. They run these courses regularly, as do the Marines incidentally, the issue was that very few members of minority groups were turning up. The reason for this is unclear but probably cultural, if you can't get people to these tasters how will they ever know the opportunities available. You can put your own cynical/ racial/ pc views on the whole episode but I honestly believe it was set up with good intent and perhaps due to media coverage perceived differently.
This particulary drive was aimed at moslem kids but thats not really the point, I wasnt commenting on people saying that this was a bad thing becasue only moslem kids were involved I was commenting on people who were saying that this was a bad thing because we shouldnt be including moslems in any army recruiment weekends because they are moslems which several of the people in this thread were.
My point being that if you tell a 15 year old moslem he cant go on an army weekend away becauase he we are worried he will turn into a terrorist that exclusion is more likely than anything else to turn him into a potential terrorist.
I have no problem with the idea that non moslems shouldnt be excluded but I also dont think they are, the army has lots of recruitment drives all the time and I suspect overall a lot more non moslems are involved in them than moslems. I also think that if weekends like this increase a sense of nationhood and understanding in moslem teenagers then they can only be a good thing and opposing them on the grounds that they are aimed at moslems is severely shortsighted and an example mad political correctness.
My point being that if you tell a 15 year old moslem he cant go on an army weekend away becauase he we are worried he will turn into a terrorist that exclusion is more likely than anything else to turn him into a potential terrorist.
I have no problem with the idea that non moslems shouldnt be excluded but I also dont think they are, the army has lots of recruitment drives all the time and I suspect overall a lot more non moslems are involved in them than moslems. I also think that if weekends like this increase a sense of nationhood and understanding in moslem teenagers then they can only be a good thing and opposing them on the grounds that they are aimed at moslems is severely shortsighted and an example mad political correctness.
Maxi_77
MIA
There is a buzz word around in a number of areas 'social inclusion' which is about taking activities to groups that otherwise might not otherwise take part for various reasons. Such programmes are seen by many as very effective about opening up opportunities of all kinds to people who would otherwise not make the link between themselves and the activity.
I know that in some areas of sporting activities such targeted activities have opened up the opportunities for many and have been seen as a great success.
I suspect that today the military in general, just as the police did some years ago, sees the Muslim community as an as yet largely untapped source of recruits and that this is an attempt to market themselves in a new market place. I don't see it so much as a 'come and play with us for a day so you don't become a terrorist' thing more we desparatly need recruits, can we get some from there.
Now I am not all that keen on the term 'social inclusion' but I do think the concept of going to groups who do not always come forward to you naturally is a good way of changing their perception of what you have to offer.
Good luck to them
Peter
I know that in some areas of sporting activities such targeted activities have opened up the opportunities for many and have been seen as a great success.
I suspect that today the military in general, just as the police did some years ago, sees the Muslim community as an as yet largely untapped source of recruits and that this is an attempt to market themselves in a new market place. I don't see it so much as a 'come and play with us for a day so you don't become a terrorist' thing more we desparatly need recruits, can we get some from there.
Now I am not all that keen on the term 'social inclusion' but I do think the concept of going to groups who do not always come forward to you naturally is a good way of changing their perception of what you have to offer.
Good luck to them
Peter
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