Medal Application Embuggerance issues...

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by hookyh, Sep 11, 2008.

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  1. I know this is a bit of a sad one (and i'm expecting the usual funnies on this), but does anyone know how the minds work of (some) of the individuals at the JPAC medals office.

    The reason i ask is that i've recently applied for an OSM and despite having fulfilled the criteria laid down for it (i've seen them in black and white), have still been knocked back by the above department.

    Having spoken to them three times (and having been given three different (incorrect) reasons as to why i shouldn't have it) i've now come to the point of trying to sort it through the div. system. Am i going about it the right way, as it seems to be policy at JPAC to do everything possible to p*ss people off and deny us the one small reward we may be entitled to for spending months on end away from our families half way round the world on active service.

    Can anyone help shed any light?
     
  2. What exactly are the three reasons you have been given for turning you down and why are they mistaken?
     
  3. Hi!

    The first was that "The Navy don't get this medal any more". This one was laughable as people are getting it since i applied and were getting it previously to my applying.

    The second was "You were in the wrong place", depite the fact that the places listed in the requirements are the places i served.

    The third was "You weren't there long enough", despite the fact that i did nearly eight months in theatre and the requirement was listed as '30 days straight, or 45 days accumulated' in the relevant areas within a twelve month timeline.

    Don't get me wrong, no-one should get a medal they haven't earned and i firmly believe that the medals people have to be thorough on these things, but having spoken to them i found them vague, unhelpful, unwilling and downright offhand (with the honourable exception of the last guy i spoke to who was entirely professional and as helpful as he could be). This isn't intended to be a slagging post for JPAC.

    Scratching my head on this to be honest...
     
  4. The first - complete and utter balls.

    The second - where did you serve...

    The third - ...and for how long?

    If it's any consolation, in a previous incarnation (i.e before I was in the RFA) we had all manner of problems getting a medal for a lad who was injured in theatre (not Afghanistan) and had to be casevac'd before his 30 days. Trying to get them to read their own qualifying rules was a battle in itself!
     
  5. From experience there are civil serpents who will refuse to admit their first descision was wrong come what may and will find excuses till in the end they do realise they are painted into a very small corner.

    In the past I have dealt with these by quoting chapter and verse of the appropriate regualtions back at them, not by reference but in full copied verbatim. It is always a long and hard struggle with these types but absolute accuracy with chapter and verse and attaching copies of all previous correspondance eventually wears the b*rst*rds down and capitulation is inevitable.
     
  6. Depends the JPAC is i believe is a civvy company along with JPA etc. It is upto them to forward details to the Joint medal office who are civil perverts. May be easier to apply straight to the medal ofiice. Lokk on MOD.uk for details.
     
  7. Thanks to all so far for the replies.

    Ref: RAF_Stoker

    I was on force protection ops in Oman, Dubai (yes i know!) and Bahrain. I was there for a good proportion of the eight months, so got in far more than the days required.

    I'll be the first to admit these places, (especially Dubai) are probably 'soft' places to be earning medals, but all three are among a list of about ten or twelve places that are mentioned as being eligible for the OSM. However, along with quite a few others i did my time so applied for the shiny thing. If places like this were never on the list i personally wouldn't complain, but someone somewhere has decided that there is a perceived threat in these areas and as such are eligible for the gong. That being so i figured i was entitled.

    Am i being unreasonable on this? I'd appreciate honest opinions and i know i'll get them on here. I rarely ask much of the organisation and hope i give a lot to it. I've done the time, so what the hell!
     
  8. Oops!!! Sorry! Just realised i'd written RAF_Stoker instead of RFA_Stoker. Apologies!
     
  9. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    As a Civil Servant, I am very tired of the slagging competition here to see who can get the best insult to our name. I’m willing to bet that most people here have never actually met one, and are slagging off because it sounds cool or “jack likeâ€. In the same spirit, I’m sure none of you will mind me referring to my RNR colleagues as “part time twats†– after all, its only a name…
     
  10. You must be an uncivil servant from civvy stree PT.

    I'm a silly servant but with a jack background and that is the way jack speaks, don't let it get to you, it's just a rearrangement of letters and I'm sure you've been called worse at some time.

    Look at the crap I got from piss taking 'jock' over their football result, I expected that and they expected it back, it don't mean anything personal.
     
  11. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Not at all, in my own encounters with civil servants there are some who merit the term "full time twat" especially those that inhabit the darker reaches of the Job Centres, the DPA and the HMRC. If the cap fits, wear it!

    [Conversely, I have also encountered others within all of these organisations that have demonstrated that there is some hope and that mindless bureaucratic adherence to in appropriate policy is not the only way - actually taking responsibility and using judgment in decision making can achieve good results for all concerned]
     
  12. I take it you are one of my brethern, in which case, you should have my email address, pse email me if you get no joy and I will go in to bat BIG STYLE!
    SO2Seaman
     
  13. Just for the record i have nothing against 'civil servants'. It's what we all are at the end of the day. I also did big-up the helpful guy at the medals office, so it's not a universal issue with their department or JPA/JPAC in general.

    SO2Seaman - many thanks for the offer. It's very much appreciated! It wasn't something i wanted to bother you with, but i'm very grateful for the offer and will be in touch if other avenues come to a dead end.

    It may be that as we are doing a brand new job they may not be aware of in their department, they're being cautious as to whether or not we qualify. That being so it may be that they could be informed officially that we are should we fulfill the criteria. I know there are others who have done even more time there than me who will i'm sure in due course apply for the medal and it would be good if the way could be cleared for them so as to affect a smooth passage. It is true to say though that some bods from MTO branch have served in Doobers and have been awarded the medal, so can't see any reason why we shouldn't.

    Once again many thanks to all who've responded on this one. I'll lower my head back under the parapet for a while and see what happens. If ultimately i prove successful i'll post it on here so anyone else can put their chits in.

    Cheers!
     
  14. You are not the only one with this problem

    Anger at medal refusal for men fighting Taliban

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums.../postorder=asc/start=0/finish_rel=-10000.html
     
  15. Not only have I met a fair number of civil serpents both in the service and since leaving and would consider some to be decent bloke/blokesses, much of the time now they are my customers, and I was married to one and my daughter is one. So I have ever so slight experience.

    Yes there is a mindset that drives what to the rest of us is illogical logic. The types of responses the op has had are just the same sort of responses I got 40 years ago when some nameless one in an office decided that I was not entitled despite the books saying quite clearly that I was. It took many carefully composed letters to get the original wrong descision overturned. It was not a marginal or discretionary case just the civil serpent didn't want to give me it and my entitlement was only an annoyance in his mission to f*ck up sailors allowances.
     
  16. [quote="Maxi_77]

    Not only have I met a fair number of civil serpents both in the service and since leaving and would consider some to be decent bloke/blokesses, much of the time now they are my customers, and I was married to one and my daughter is one. So I have ever so slight experience.

    Yes there is a mindset that drives what to the rest of us is illogical logic. The types of responses the op has had are just the same sort of responses I got 40 years ago when some nameless one in an office decided that I was not entitled despite the books saying quite clearly that I was. It took many carefully composed letters to get the original wrong descision overturned. It was not a marginal or discretionary case just the civil serpent didn't want to give me it and my entitlement was only an annoyance in his mission to f*ck up sailors allowances.[/quote]

    They are probably (if not definately) under orders from Brown that if it costs more than 2p, don't issue.
     
  17. Tomm90, if you read the artticle ref refusal of medal for men fighting taliban, you will find that they have already got the OSM for previous tours of Afghan whilst in Kabul. They want recognition for Helmand, which has been done to death from our summer Tour on Herrick 4!
     
  18. I don't get the outrage on ARRSE (I rarely do).

    There are medals for campaigns and medals for individual acts of valour/leadership etc. There are not, and to my knowledge there have not been in modern times*, medals for single skirmishes or battles.

    Were there separate awards for Goose Green, Tumbledown etc in '82? No, and I can't remember complaints then.

    * I believe there were awards for Trafalgar (though not for all involved) and Waterloo, but am certain the practice had died out by WWI - and I think long before that.
     
  19. Point taken. I thought the Army received a NATO medal for service in Afganistan as well, and if they go to and fro a number of operational tours they receive an Accumulated Service medal. Do RN, RNR and RFA personnel receive these medals also?
     
  20. Short answer - YES! The medals are awarded to qualifying members of HM Armed Forces whatever colour uniform or underwear they may have.

    ref the original post, I presume the OSM in question is the Op Veritas one in which case there are countless shiny gongs being sported by people who have worked or taken at least 30 days to pass through Bahrain and Dubai but it the OSM is for the tussle at the top of the Gulf then Bahrain and Dubai got chopped off the list back in 2003.
     

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