Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible?

imom1406

War Hero
Before i start, i would just like to say that unlike most people, i do not know the answer to this problem, because i cherish the freedoms better people than me have fought and died for.

The world has changed significantly both in the West and in the Middle East. No longer are terrorist acts small and somewhere else, now they have the ability to take far more lives in one onslaught than the entire "troubles" did over 30 odd years.

That is the main difference..the capability for destruction allied with the lack of personal concern i.e someone willing to die to kill others. This is a powerfully scarey thing to consider. This means that people are not concerned about being caught post event and brought to trial. That used to be the contract in these kind of deals.....the fear of being caught and the ensuing punishment.

Now this has changed, and a couple of things occur to me. Human nature needs retribution for wicked acts (look at the frustration in Palestinians who feel victimised and ethnically cleansed)....there is no such justice or revenge when the perpetrators are dead too..Secondly, If you can't get them post event , you have to get them before....which means our traditional way of gathering evidence has to change and rely on intelligence and hearsay as well as some gathered evidence.

All i can see happening is the erosion of freedom and civil liberties...and befor eyou start..i don't mean the stuff you see spouted by sandle wearing beardies (and that is just the women)..i mean basic Magna Carta stuff Innocence before guilt etc.

This is all getting a bit too "Minority Report" for my liking. But i abhore terrorism in all it's forms, so i guess i am really stumped here....i hear what both Levers and Seadog and others say, and you all have points. But neither sides of this argument as yet really provide a solution that saves lives without eroding civil liberties...
 

ohaire

Badgeman
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
RoofRat said:
If some bastard is going to bomb me or my country, I can live with guilt by association.
Treason should still be a capital punishment! I wouldn't shed one tear.
RoofRat

Treason is still punishable by execution, as far as I was aware. The problem is to get the nanny state to charge anybody with treason in the first place, remembering that you can only be guilty of treason if you are a citizen of the country that brings the charge.

unfortunately, no its not, brussels decidede taht capital punsihment just isnt fair on those poor souls, perhaps a rehabititation order?

however capital punishment should be re-introduced in such cases but only for concrete evidence, treason or no treason.

for example if old akbah gets stopped and searched and turns out his hi-tech bag is packed with some sort of fertiliser and other chemicals then he should swing and before he swings, the police should be able to hold him for 28, 90, however many days they want without having to ask some un-elected magistrate in order to find his mates and comrades
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
ohaire said:
unfortunately, no its not, brussels decidede taht capital punsihment just isnt fair on those poor souls, perhaps a rehabititation order?

And there's us, trying to establish a pinnacle of moral highness licensing capital punishment. You know ... us Westerners, doyens of principle and compassion. Oh, have a look at what happens in Chop-Chop square every Friday morning in Saudi Arabia. Check out the metering of crime and punishment in Arab lands.

however capital punishment should be re-introduced in such cases but only for concrete evidence, treason or no treason.

What? Concrete evidence? Like the concrete evidence that jailed the men accused of the Carl Bridgewater case? Like the cast-titanium 'you got me bang to rights, guvvnor' evidence submitted to jail the Brimingham and Guildford bombers? Or is it that they have beards, yell 'Allah Akhbar!' and wear funny dresses enough? Sure ... let's catch the ******* setting out, on the day in the act of perpetrating the crime. Let's make sure we have them in the act, irrefutible evidence, the stuff that proves guilt, not satisfies suspicion.

for example if old akbah gets stopped and searched and turns out his hi-tech bag is packed with some sort of fertiliser and other chemicals then he should swing and before he swings, the police should be able to hold him for 28, 90, however many days they want without having to ask some un-elected magistrate in order to find his mates and comrades

Yeah! And I tell you what? Let's build our own Guantanamo Bay, right here in free old Britain. Let's jail the motherfuckers, piss on their Quoran's ... let's imprison them, even though we can't find evidence to support the framing of charges ... simply because (see last posting a, b and c)

If it satisfies your pea-sized mentality, make it so. Just don't drip when the same law is used against you ... your son is locked up indefinately for charges yet to be brought and you suddenly realise that even the vote you cast, the choices you make and the freedoms you fought for, don't mean a ******* thing.

Levers
 

ohaire

Badgeman
Levers_Aligned said:
ohaire said:
unfortunately, no its not, brussels decidede taht capital punsihment just isnt fair on those poor souls, perhaps a rehabititation order?

And there's us, trying to establish a pinnacle of moral highness licensing capital punishment. You know ... us Westerners, doyens of principle and compassion. Oh, have a look at what happens in Chop-Chop square every Friday morning in Saudi Arabia. Check out the metering of crime and punishment in Arab lands.

however capital punishment should be re-introduced in such cases but only for concrete evidence, treason or no treason.

What? Concrete evidence? Like the concrete evidence that jailed the men accused of the Carl Bridgewater case? Like the cast-titanium 'you got me bang to rights, guvvnor' evidence submitted to jail the Brimingham and Guildford bombers? Or is it that they have beards, yell 'Allah Akhbar!' and wear funny dresses enough? Sure ... let's catch the ******* setting out, on the day in the act of perpetrating the crime. Let's make sure we have them in the act, irrefutible evidence, the stuff that proves guilt, not satisfies suspicion.

for example if old akbah gets stopped and searched and turns out his hi-tech bag is packed with some sort of fertiliser and other chemicals then he should swing and before he swings, the police should be able to hold him for 28, 90, however many days they want without having to ask some un-elected magistrate in order to find his mates and comrades

Yeah! And I tell you what? Let's build our own Guantanamo Bay, right here in free old Britain. Let's jail the motherfuckers, piss on their Quoran's ... let's imprison them, even though we can't find evidence to support the framing of charges ... simply because (see last posting a, b and c)

If it satisfies your pea-sized mentality, make it so. Just don't drip when the same law is used against you ... your son is locked up indefinately for charges yet to be brought and you suddenly realise that even the vote you cast, the choices you make and the freedoms you fought for, don't mean a ******* thing.

Levers

slow down there, i didnt mention about locking anybody up for having beards, im just saying that if terrorists are caught red handed, the authorities should be allowed a reason able amount of time to gather evidence for or against them.

and as for the capital punishment thing, yes i stand by that, so you think it is right that there is no ultimate deterrent to criminals, that no matter what they do, they could eventually walk free

imom said

Before i start, i would just like to say that unlike most people, i do not know the answer to this problem, because i cherish the freedoms better people than me have fought and died for.

nor do i know the answer to this problem, and i am not suggesting that capital punishment be used willy nilly like certain forum members have interpretted.
 
Levers_Aligned said:
ohaire said:
unfortunately, no its not, brussels decidede taht capital punsihment just isnt fair on those poor souls, perhaps a rehabititation order?

And there's us, trying to establish a pinnacle of moral highness licensing capital punishment. You know ... us Westerners, doyens of principle and compassion. Oh, have a look at what happens in Chop-Chop square every Friday morning in Saudi Arabia. Check out the metering of crime and punishment in Arab lands.

however capital punishment should be re-introduced in such cases but only for concrete evidence, treason or no treason.

What? Concrete evidence? Like the concrete evidence that jailed the men accused of the Carl Bridgewater case? Like the cast-titanium 'you got me bang to rights, guvvnor' evidence submitted to jail the Brimingham and Guildford bombers? Or is it that they have beards, yell 'Allah Akhbar!' and wear funny dresses enough? Sure ... let's catch the ******* setting out, on the day in the act of perpetrating the crime. Let's make sure we have them in the act, irrefutible evidence, the stuff that proves guilt, not satisfies suspicion.

for example if old akbah gets stopped and searched and turns out his hi-tech bag is packed with some sort of fertiliser and other chemicals then he should swing and before he swings, the police should be able to hold him for 28, 90, however many days they want without having to ask some un-elected magistrate in order to find his mates and comrades

Yeah! And I tell you what? Let's build our own Guantanamo Bay, right here in free old Britain. Let's jail the motherfuckers, piss on their Quoran's ... let's imprison them, even though we can't find evidence to support the framing of charges ... simply because (see last posting a, b and c)

If it satisfies your pea-sized mentality, make it so. Just don't drip when the same law is used against you ... your son is locked up indefinately for charges yet to be brought and you suddenly realise that even the vote you cast, the choices you make and the freedoms you fought for, don't mean a ******* thing.

Levers
If our security services shared your liberal views we would be in deep shit. How many total innocents do you think there are in Guantanamo? Anyone, not just rag heads, trying to take down airliners by shoe bombs or chemical means should be taken out of circulation by imprisonment or other means. I would rather someones liberties were infringed than see hundreds of people blown up mid flight. We are fully at war with these animals now, they are breeding in our shitty islamic communities that people with their liberal mentalities allowed to be built.
Why should we allow home grown scum to live in our country when they openly denounce it and declare war on our people?
 

RoofRat

War Hero
"If that is what I am, then you my friend are akin to Hitler."
Levers old mate, if you only knew the diverse make up of my family background you would choke on your statement :)
That aside, I never mentioned the word you used to describe people from the sub continent. I am talking about Muslim fundamentalists, whether they be far eastern Asians, middle eastern Arabs, or our our Muslim fundamentalists (the last one also includes ethnic British) Their stated aim is for the overthrow of our secular way of life. No argument there!
Now, I held the same view of the PIRA and OIRA when they were attacking my/our country too, and no doubt if another group turns up trying to subvertor damage our way of life, I shall be voiciferous in condenming them too. No apology!
The whole point of my reply really was to vent my feelings on the very liberal attitudes, not just yours, that are making excuses for these acts here. For more than 37 years I worked for Queen and Country, I am a passionate Englishman 1st and 2nd a very proud Britain. If it takes some unpalitable laws to assure our future, then I will back the people who will bring it into force. But, I have to say, I don't see any from the present bunch of Wet liberal Pollys, Police Chiefs or Judiciary.
RoofRat
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
Lingyai said:
If our security services shared your liberal views we would be in deep shit. How many total innocents do you think there are in Guantanamo? Anyone, not just rag heads, trying to take down airliners by shoe bombs or chemical means should be taken out of circulation by imprisonment or other means.

Again, Lingyai, you use the term 'liberal' like it is some kind of insult. Fill your boots. Our security services can't hit a cow's arse with a ******* banjo at the moment, despite the tub-thumping and crawing. Let's see the evidence, and see them sent down beyond reasonable doubt. If they do walk (and no doubt straight into the nearest Mosque for some more 'terrorist training') I suppose you'll come back on here saying they're guilty anyway, just because they are 'ragheads' yeah?

Innocents in Guantanamo? You tell me. I'd say with the glorious Western justice system yu trumpet so loudly they are all innocent, until proven guilty. That's how we work it, isn't it? So, clever lad ... tell me how many are standing trial for terrorist offences, five years after the Yanks went into Afghanistan?

I would rather someones liberties were infringed than see hundreds of people blown up mid flight. We are fully at war with these animals now, they are breeding in our shitty islamic communities that people with their liberal mentalities allowed to be built.
Why should we allow home grown scum to live in our country when they openly denounce it and declare war on our people?

So, you'd be happy as **** to be caught in the crossfire (or your kids) on the streets of Britian (or mistakenly slotted, even) so the War of Terror can go on? Have a ******* decent think about what you're saying there. You're actually advocating a police state, with martial law. Lovely! And ... at war with whom, exactly?

Home grown scum. What a marvellous thought. Does that include bigotted, racist bastards, as well?

Levers
 

come_the_day

Lantern Swinger
Don't see what the last few posts have to do with the thread, but it's good to see that Lingyai and Levers have the bit between their teeth! I hope that Ryanair get their millions back from the government, but they'd have to concede that Reid had got it wrong, so fat chance of that.
 
Levers_Aligned said:
Lingyai said:
If our security services shared your liberal views we would be in deep shit. How many total innocents do you think there are in Guantanamo? Anyone, not just rag heads, trying to take down airliners by shoe bombs or chemical means should be taken out of circulation by imprisonment or other means.

Again, Lingyai, you use the term 'liberal' like it is some kind of insult. Fill your boots. Our security services can't hit a cow's arse with a ******* banjo at the moment, despite the tub-thumping and crawing. Let's see the evidence, and see them sent down beyond reasonable doubt. If they do walk (and no doubt straight into the nearest Mosque for some more 'terrorist training') I suppose you'll come back on here saying they're guilty anyway, just because they are 'ragheads' yeah?

Innocents in Guantanamo? You tell me. I'd say with the glorious Western justice system yu trumpet so loudly they are all innocent, until proven guilty. That's how we work it, isn't it? So, clever lad ... tell me how many are standing trial for terrorist offences, five years after the Yanks went into Afghanistan?

I would rather someones liberties were infringed than see hundreds of people blown up mid flight. We are fully at war with these animals now, they are breeding in our shitty islamic communities that people with their liberal mentalities allowed to be built.
Why should we allow home grown scum to live in our country when they openly denounce it and declare war on our people?

So, you'd be happy as **** to be caught in the crossfire (or your kids) on the streets of Britian (or mistakenly slotted, even) so the War of Terror can go on? Have a ******* decent think about what you're saying there. You're actually advocating a police state, with martial law. Lovely! And ... at war with whom, exactly?

Home grown scum. What a marvellous thought. Does that include bigotted, racist bastards, as well?

Levers

I think it wouldn't be much different than has happened in Northern Ireland

Only thing being the Army /peace keeping force would know their possible enemy----the beard and raghead appearance .LOL
 
Levers_Aligned said:
Let's see the evidence, and see them sent down beyond reasonable doubt. If they do walk (and no doubt straight into the nearest Mosque for some more 'terrorist training')
Levers_Aligned said:
So we just let them get on with it for fear of upsetting them?

Levers_Aligned said:
So, you'd be happy as **** to be caught in the crossfire (or your kids) on the streets of Britian (or mistakenly slotted, even) so the War of Terror can go on? Have a ******* decent think about what you're saying there. You're actually advocating a police state, with martial law. Lovely! And ... at war with whom, exactly?
Levers_Aligned said:
Are you offshore? Do you actualy know what is going on in the world? Police state is not a problem for law abiding citizens.

Levers_Aligned said:
Home grown scum. What a marvellous thought. Does that include bigotted, racist bastards, as well?

Levers
Obviously a dig at me, but I am not a racist, however I do take exception to the Islamic scum that try to blow up innocent civilians, if that makes me a racist in your eyes then so be it. They deserve the noose, the people that blow up kids and women (ragheads or micks for that matter) deserve to swing, if you don't agree with that then the issue is with you I think.
 
Lingyai said:
Are you offshore? Do you actualy know what is going on in the world? Police state is not a problem for law abiding citizens.

Have you ever been in a real police state?

Peter

Ps most people have a dig at you because it is really too easy most of the time.
 
Ling - don't stop posting because some have a dig, though I'm sure you won't!! Your little spat with Levers has been good entertainment, although the lapse into effing and blinding would be more at home in Lil's. Society is made up of all opinions and long may we be free to express them.
 
I don't think Ling will give up on us that easy, he enjoys winding those that will bite up, just as some of us like to niggle at him just a little.

To be honest I think he is fully aware of his entertainment value.

Peter
 
Maxi_77 said:
I don't think Ling will give up on us that easy, he enjoys winding those that will bite up, just as some of us like to niggle at him just a little.

To be honest I think he is fully aware of his entertainment value.

Peter
Quite right sir. If the banter died here I would be off like a shot. Cyber mess deck, got to love it, all the banter and none of the scrubbing out....
 

mazza_magoo

Lantern Swinger
Lingyai said:
Maxi_77 said:
I don't think Ling will give up on us that easy, he enjoys winding those that will bite up, just as some of us like to niggle at him just a little.

To be honest I think he is fully aware of his entertainment value.

Peter
Quite right sir. If the banter died here I would be off like a shot. Cyber mess deck, got to love it, all the banter and none of the scrubbing out....

At least he's leaving us part timers alone for now.
 

mazza_magoo

Lantern Swinger
mazza_magoo said:
Lingyai said:
Maxi_77 said:
I don't think Ling will give up on us that easy, he enjoys winding those that will bite up, just as some of us like to niggle at him just a little.

To be honest I think he is fully aware of his entertainment value.

Peter
Quite right sir. If the banter died here I would be off like a shot. Cyber mess deck, got to love it, all the banter and none of the scrubbing out....

At least he's leaving us part timers alone for now.

ooopppsss!!!

INCOMING!!!!!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
soleil Mail: "Operation Catapult: Mass murder or stroke of genius?" History 15
MoD_RSS Career Insight: Mass, Legal Trainee, Government Legal Department MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK approach to the prevention of mass atrocities MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Working together to persuade states not to obtain weapons of mass destruction MoD News 0
A Body Mass Index too low - BRNC January 2017 Joining the Royal Navy 11
BillyNoMates Weapons of Mass Destruction p.l.c. (est 2011). Diamond Lil's 1
trelawney126 Power Cuts and mass Blackouts Current Affairs 12
P Mass ARRSE spamming event Current Affairs 0
O Running, and muscle mass Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 15
A Mass postings of same on inappropriate threads by ZiskStov Site Issues 3
MoD_RSS Charity regulator disqualifies individual as trustee over death threats and incitements to murder MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK-Pakistan close working helps convict man for murder of Dr Imran Farooq in UK MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK statement on the murder of Boris Nemtsov MoD News 0
soleil i News: "BBC And ITV In Battle Over Rival British Nuclear Submarine Murder Dramas" Submariners 10
MoD_RSS Speech: "The Russian State was responsible for the attempted murder...and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury." MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Press release: FCO Minister appalled by reported murder of Yazidis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: Foreign Secretary appalled by apparent murder of Japanese hostage MoD News 0
BillyNoMates Murder on New Years Eve Current Affairs 0
babygravy Marine convicted of Afghan murder named Current Affairs 34
tentoes Murder case dropped. The Corps 3
Handler RM's on murder charge Current Affairs 14
tam Couple sentenced to 25 years for murder of daughter. Current Affairs 123
SARKING Murder 70 Years Ago History 2
janner Murder at tesco Miscellaneous 2
trelawney126 Midsomer Murder Mystery Diamond Lil's 29
Gombear Murder on board British Merchantman 1856 History 0
wet_blobby Docter Kelly....Murder? Diamond Lil's 2
D Facebook murder victim's relatives query police tactics Current Affairs 2
finknottle Royal Marine charged with murder Current Affairs 4
slim Murder accused handed to Iraqi authorities Current Affairs 6
K Boys sentenced over Goth murder Current Affairs 21
H Woolmer Murder Suspect picture released Diamond Lil's 4
MoD_RSS Space company takes to the skies alongside the NHS MoD News 0
MoD_RSS An Electric Revolution in the Skies MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: UK and US agree new open skies arrangements MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: British-armed F-35B Lightning jet takes to the skies MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Press release: Citizen scientists look to the skies to help Dstl study MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: Defence Secretary announces £80m Guardian to protect the skies MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: UK takes lead in policing skies MoD News 0
soleil News Guardian: "Air Cadets Swap Skies For The Sea" Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) 0
soleil Western Daily Press: "Duke Takes To The Skies In Historic Craft" The Fleet Air Arm 0
MoD_RSS Blue Peter takes to the skies with the Navy Current Affairs 16
MoD_RSS RAF and Navy patrol Libyan skies and seas Current Affairs 0
soleil Navy News: "Jetstream Trainers Bow Out In Cornish Skies" The Fleet Air Arm 0
FlagWagger Lady-Boys to the skies... Diamond Lil's 21
soleil Navy News: "Diamonds Sparkle In The Lincolnshire Skies" The Fleet Air Arm 0
soleil Navy News: "STOVL F-35B takes to the skies" The Fleet Air Arm 17
NotmeChief Most expensive RAF aircraft ever takes to the skies Current Affairs 11
N XH558 Takes to the Skies Current Affairs 19
Similar threads

















































Top