Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by sgtpepperband, Aug 22, 2006.

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  1. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Some interesting information about the chemical bombs that were supposed to be created in the airplane toilets.
  2. Not being a chemistry whiz myself, I cant speak to the veracity of the article, but it's food for thought, isn't it?
    I know NASA used a similar potion back during the Apollo program as fuel for the orbital manuevering engines on the capsule. These type of chemicals were called "hypergolics", and were stable apart, but when combined, caused a strong reaction, but not an explosion.

    <tinfoil hat on>
    Could this just have been a diversion, to draw our attention away from the real avenue of attack?
    <tinfoil hat off>
  3. Sadly, it's an irrelevance whether it was feasable or not, it was considered by the perpetrators as feasable (allegedly!). Thats enough for me...
  4. In my opinion, the fact that they were even thinking/trying to cause death on this scale, never mind the chemistry, is enough to lock them up for life.
    I also believe that the Offence of Treason, and it's punishment(capital) should be brought back for any British citizen conspiring against the State.
    That would also take in to account those supposedly(?) "unemployed" IRA bomb makers and rogue special forces troops who are now suspected of training Al Quaida cells.
  5. Whilst it is theoretically posdsible to produce a liquid explosive as described the risks in doing so outside of a controlled laboratory environment are immense;the perpetrator would end up seriously injuring only himself.The use of such explosives is only possible in the movies,from where our leaders seem to be getting most of their ideas on terrorists.
  6. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    I posted Sgtpeppers piece on another thread and got this in reply (the author speaks with hands on authority)

    An interesting article. However the terrorist does not need to go as far as establishing a small chemistry lab in an aircrafts bog, in which to mix his or her chemicals. The fact is that there are a number of simple and readily available binaries that will do the work that the terrorists want. I wont publish them here, but anyone who is interested can drop me a private email.

    I will not be making his email available :lol:
  7. These people are not worrying about a premature explosion or hurting themselves!!!!!! Why are you making this a factor?
    They are there to kill you and themselves, for fcuk sake. :evil:
  8. Absolutely right mate. All they have to do is get into a position to mix the ingredients and then 'Bang'. They know they are going to die anyway.
  9. Airline Curry and a match would do it!
  10. Yes, but I've met people who thought it was pheasible to bring down the government by not washing and playing guitar very badly. It doesn't mean it's a palpable reality. :p
  11. Slightly different mate, they didn't have mass murder in their hearts!
  12. Surely the pertinent part of this dialogue is that a security risk was identified and action was taken to address it, in time to prevent any atrocity by the misguided potential terrorists.

    If people have been arrested in error, that's unfortunately one of the consequences of heightened security levels. I agree with the government very rarely, but I would prefer the short-term inconvenience caused by overreaction to the permanent inconvenience of mass casualties and deaths.

    The contribution of the chemical possibilities is interesting, but not of great importance, because we already have the proof of the terrorist will to succeed in 9/11 and 7/7, not to mention the litany provided by the PIRA, ETA, Tamil Tigers and the myriad other organisations who feel they have the right to protest with other peoples' lives.
  13. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Or more likely: We are doing a bit rubbish in Afghanistan at the moment, and despite mooted pleas to reinforce the war effort out there and stop pretending the troops on the ground can do it on willpower and shit-kit alone, we'll cobble together some half-arsed story just to remind the ambivalent, complacent British Public who the ******* enemy is.

    To do 'what' exactly? Let's take this as it stands. They're a bunch of chancers, who haven't the first inkling what the **** binaries are, let alone how to smuggle them on a fairly-highly secured passenger aircraft and then go to the trouble of building them and detonating them. Have you the proof they could actually carry out the action? I haven't seen any tangible proof yet. Where are these videos? The suicide notes? Will we see any of this actually come out, untampered with and providing concrete, irrefutible evidence for the prosecution? Or will the police **** it all up again?

    So, having thoughts of death is punishable under which statute, exactly? Even if the police can undeniably link what they claim to have found to the alleged perpetrators, how many of them will honestly never see the light of day again? It's not enough to lock them up for life. Even murderers are rarely locked up for life, these days.

    You got any proof of your last statement? If the PIRA or OIRA are training AQ cells, they certainly aren't any fuckng good. The PIRA managed to bring down the ******* hotel that Thatcher and her Cabinet were in. Whoever is trainig the AQ (as you allege) isn't a ******* patch on the PIRA.

    No one is denying that. What is for discussion is the fact that the binaries alleged to have been earmarked for use have a complex construction process if they are to release enough energy to take down a plane.

    What a pretty bad state for our state to be in. You join in some mythical 'War on Ter' (copyright 2003, GW Bush and A Blair) and immediatly your ******* country shits a brick and everyone eyes anyone with a suntan and a beard as a terrorist. You look like a terrorist (Jean Charles de Menenzies) then you're chased into a tube station and shot. Your police force shoots two beardy types even though they are proven not to be connected. And then everyone wonders why tragedies like 7/7 happen.

    Some of you guys should write for the Daily Mail. Seriously.

  14. So what do you suggest smart bloke?
    When the whiff of a plot like this is uncovered do the police and 5 just ignore it or wait for the bombs to go off?
    7/7 etc. happened purely because your average backward islamic type hates the west full stop bacuase they don't follow islam.
    And Al qaeda bringing down the twin towers wasn't a patch on the IRA???
    Sometimes you really do talk out of your arse.
  15. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    What a pretty bad state for our state to be in. You join in some mythical 'War on Ter' (copyright 2003, GW Bush and A Blair) and immediatly your ******* country shits a brick and everyone eyes anyone with a suntan and a beard as a terrorist. You look like a terrorist (Jean Charles de Menenzies) then you're chased into a tube station and shot. Your police force shoots two beardy types even though they are proven not to be connected. And then everyone wonders why tragedies like 7/7 happen.

    Some of you guys should write for the Daily Mail. Seriously.


    When did they shoot two beardy types, I only know of one?
  16. When did they shoot two beardy types, I only know of one?[/quote]

    And he was subsequently charged with posession of kiddy porn ....nice innocent law abiding tax payers that they were!
  17. Well well, we have our own Liberal apologist. I stand by everything I said Levers.
    As for proof that PIRA are training terrorist cells around the world read something other than the Guardian, or the "Human Rights Weekly ( :) ) and you will read articles where PIRA men have been arrested in Peru, the Basque country, wanted in Spain and are known to have trained men in Libya.

    If some bastard is going to bomb me or my country, I can live with guilt by association.
    Treason should still be a capital punishment! I wouldn't shed one tear.
  18. Treason is still punishable by execution, as far as I was aware. The problem is to get the nanny state to charge anybody with treason in the first place, remembering that you can only be guilty of treason if you are a citizen of the country that brings the charge.
  19. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    The police and security services can cry wolf, kick down the wrong door, shoot the wrong bloke, shoot (by accident) the right bloke for the wrong reason (not a terrorist but alleged pornographer specialising in children). They can in the form of those who celebrate diversity utter arrant drivel and do so with predictable regularity.

    Equally predictable are the internet warriors, smarter than everyone, never off the net (despite the huge brains they don’t have a job to get in the way) who naysay any technical aspect of a terror plot/action. Their lack of technical education is obvious, an anonymous ‘friend’ usually has a degree/doctorate in the appropriate subject and informs/supports the naysayer. Really?! The Telegraph ran a piece on them recently.

    No food for thought in Sgt Pepper's attached article BY. Just tinfoil.

    Get a taster here;
  20. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    No, not-so-smart bloke. I suggest we stop ******* about making up excuses to invade foreign lands and hanging on the coat-tails of a greedy, inwardly facing, backward global thug. Really think Bush gives a **** whether we are targeted by alleged terrorists? Well, yeah, because it keeps dullards like you firmly fixed into your racist mould and willing and able to gob off and support a war of lies and folly. Before you start, by the way, I raise you 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. Away you go.

    Any rationale toward their hatred? Anything to do with meddling in their afffairs, trying to dominate their economies and wholesale ransacking of their mineral wealth for the past hundred years or so? Cue irrational rant full of salacious messdeck banter, laced with 'ragheads' and 'wogs' and any other jibe you can dig from your well of fear and loathing.

    Of course. I forgot. It was Paddy and his oppos who trained the ******* Saudis (read - 'Saudis, not Iraqis or Afghans) to fly jets into the WTC and Pentagon. It was the same self people who organised it all and trained them, in secret tented camps out in the Hindu Kush (just like in the movies, huh?)

    Who talks out of their arse?

    I like the cut of your gib, Roofrat. However I refute your 'Liberal Apologist' line. If that is what I am, then you my friend are akin to Hitler. Because other people doubt the validity of alleged terrorist accusations until irrefutible proof is estabished and a tangible link to a terrorist organisation, doesn't mean that there is an excuse for terrorism. But examining the words printed here, the inferences and the illusion, one can only deduce that somehow, someway the whole plan has succeeded and you've all been done to a turn. The fear that pervades spells it all out, from Lingyais blanket loathing of anything other than home grown British, to everyones shooting from the hip attitude ... the coppers have arrested some 'Pakkis' three cheers we have won the war. Never mind the mechanics of the case, just shoot the ******* because:

    a. They're Pakkis
    b. We're not
    c. Erm ... that's it.

    Oh, and anyone else who gets caught in the crossfire (Brazilian electricians, for example) well, that's tough. Nobody get a suntan and run from a bloke pointing a gun at you, eh?

    And Al Quaeda? This is what was alleged, by the way. Are the PIRA training Al Quaeda? If so, where's the proof? Have we arrested and tried anyone for it, or are the papers always right?

    Indeed. And now let's see the irrefutible proof. If they do go away, let's be happy that they go down safe in the knowledge they are guilty and we have shown it to be, without the Bill making up half of it, forcing signed confessions and having to release half the suspects because they've fucked up the case. I'd like to have faith in the justice system I believe in. Having ten supposed IRA bombers released after it being found they were not the perpertrators is bad enough. Let's hope that they have the right people this time and we don't have a Forest Gate, part two.


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