Many migrants do not integrate

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, May 29, 2007.

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  1. So what is new. People generally do not mix outside of their communities unless they have to. Take the case of the majority of British Ex Pats, the first thing they do when moving abroad is join the nearest British club make new English speaking friends and eat fish & chips. No different from any other race. I have found from experience that I mix more with the local community when there are extremely small numbers of other British people around. The locals accept you more readily and the welcome given is generally warmer. If there is a large British contingent it is easy just to go to the British run bars, clubs and cafes.

    Anyone else made any observations?
  2. A fair comment, yes I have encountered ex-pats doing exactly that, especially in arab countries and of course spain.

    However one thing they do not do is try to bring in there own laws and religions and get the country they are residing in to change. As is happening in the UK.

    This is part of the problem.

  3. YAHAL

    Spot on, that is the problem indeed . Whereas ( I believe ) we do not try to force our way of life on others , others seem hell bent on changing our social environment into theirs
  4. I watched a TV documentary on expats in Spain. One couple who emigrated 18 years ago were rather chuffed that in that time they had never made any Spanish friends and still barely spoke a word of Spanish.

    I'm emigrating when I retire but there are two provisos… I will make sure I have a good command of the language before I go avoid the expat ghettoes like the plague.

    I go native when I holiday in Switzerland and Italy, from my experience, 99% of the problems the 'english' have abroad is there refusal to learn any of the language and that stops them interacting with the locals.
  5. Sometimes the communities around the 'ghettos' do not make it easy to integrate but I do agree that the issue we have in Britain and mainly England is that the powers that be seem to be hell bent on welcoming immigrants (legitimate or otherwise) by scrapping 'British' customs in fear of upsetting them. So we cant call it Christmas anymore, last year some councils wanted 'bonfire night', we cant celbrate St Georges day etc and yet my local news seem to always send camera crews to cover the local muslim, islamic, chinese new year celebrations (ok I admit they dont tend to have that many drunken bodies on the fountains etc) but if we cant let firewaorks oof for bonfire night anymore, why are other religions allowed to let them off to celebrate their religious days/events ???
  6. To me if anyone wishes to emigrate then it is better to choose an area of a country which does not have a large ex pat population. It is nice to have a few other native English speakers around, however too many is a hindrance when it comes to both learning the language and making friends with the indigenous population.

  7. Too true! My brother tried moving to France a few years ago. Now being English, he was used to all the forms at the local council being available in 13 different languages. So off he toddles to the Marie to get a form to register his residence. No surprise, it's in French.

    So, in his best mumbling franglaise he asked if they had an English translation… instant stoney faced look from madam who snapped 'ICI FRANCE!' and slammed the window shut on him! :biggrin:

    He gave up and moved back within the year.
  8. Seems that the French do have some great idea's. We should do it here, lets face it there is no legal requirement to print forms in so many different languages. Perhaps we could reduce the forms to French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and of course English for the few of us who choose to remain here ^~
  9. You make a very valid point there Slim, and one which I was going to make when I first read the thread title!

    As a kid I grew up in several large expatriate communities in Europe. We moved every couple of years (not Forces, Dad worked for a large US multinational), so I guess never really had time to 'inegrate'. Went to British schools, CofE chruches, mixed with other exaptriates (not just British, from all over the world), but very few locals (and that was in Europe!!). It didn't stop us keeping abreast of what was happening in that country, it's just we had our own sub-community which was easy to settle into, and with constant moves you were always meeting up with friends from a couple of moves ago whose parents were doing th same thing!

    I guess the only time we really integrated was in the States, being the only Brits for miles, and going to local schools etc.
  10. Its true though, I was filling out a form from my local council over the weekend (asking how I though my local community was safe, clean etc) and when it came to language spoken, English was towards the bottom of the list.

    Surely what we should do is instead of pandering to those who wish to live here for free and not integrate, by scrapping ALL transcripts in different languages EXCEPT English it would force them to integrate by learning the language. If they wish to speak their native language at home so be it but in ANY public place including shops then English should be the spoken word.

  11. Integrating over here isn’t so hard, ok down in Paphos, Limassol and Protaras, tend to be big ex-pat communities, basing this on the amount of manufactured villages that have been developed over the years.

    But here in Nicosia, there is no separation, yes there are private English schools but the majority that go there are the UN kids. Integrating your child into a Cypriot school isn’t hard. My friends have all done it and the majority of Cypriot schools round here teach most lessons in English.

    When you move to another country, you should be polite enough to attempt to learn the language, instead of being ignorant in not learning. My Greek is so so but enough o get by a on a simple conversation.

    I am sure the older ex-pats come here to live out their days once they retire but I know a majority try to mix in with the locals.

    Arab countries prefer you to abide by their religious dates and rules, take Ramadan, out of respect people do abide by this. So why do other nationalities want the UK to change their rules?
  12. Would that include scrapping all English signs in Wales then? ;)

    Personally I think that if you emigrate then you have to integrate, otherwise there is no point in going. On the other hand it must be nice to relax and speak English amongst friends.
  13. Would that include scrapping all English signs in Wales then? ;)

    Personally I think that if you emigrate then you have to integrate, otherwise there is no point in going. On the other hand it must be nice to relax and speak English amongst friends.[/quote]

    I dont go to Wales so dont care what they do but you only have to look at the likes of Manchester / Chester putting road signs up in Polish because the HGV drivers dont speak a word of English and rely too much on GPS Systems to get them to where they want to go.....
  14. Oh, I see what you're saying, but how far do we go? How big do we make these sign/forms/whatever to include every language? Because sooner or later, in this enlightened society of libel culture, some johnny foreigner is going to sue some council or other because his or her language isn't on said sign/form/whatever and this is tantamount to racism!!
    The thing is, the damage was already done as soon as the first sign came out with another language on it. We can't go back now, its too integrated meaning those people don't have to be integrated!
  15. Ah and with the EU ever expanding, how soon before we have languages from the African Continent, Japan, Korea or God Forbid AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!

    The reason they put the signs up in Manchester was to try and prevent accidents BUT when it was discussed on Jeremy Vine, as a lot of British drivers who drive thourhg Poland and other European Countries stated - this is the only country that does it. They have to know where they are going when abroad......
  16. It would in my world… bloody pointless language that costs a fortune in Government spending to teach it. A dead end language with zero relevence and listening to someone speaking is like listening to someone choking on a gobful of plegm
  17. Eh?
    I said Scrapping ENGLISH signs in Wales mate, not the other way round :)
    And anyway, whats wrong with Welsh children learning Welsh? Isn't it part of the heritage that we all want to keep?
  18. My brother recently moved to Spain..and chose an area that was well away from the normal ex-pat gathering spots. He says there are a few English living nearby and is enjoying trying to intergrate with the locals.
    I don't suppose they have put up signs in English just for him, so it's make or break. If he wanted the English bars/chip shops he could have stayed at home! (Not the same weather though is it!)

    Here, as been said, we bend over backwards to make all Nationals happy from forms, road signs, schools for English etc; and then give them all the benefits thats going...sorry..that's another story!! Really makes my blood boil to think we have to change our festive names and ban certain English words to keep these foreigners happy..
  19. All Countries should teach thier CURRENT national Language.

    Any other language should be taught as an alternative in Schools/Colleges. If SHOULD NOT be down to the tax payer to fund visitors/immigrants/whoever using translators and various different forms printed in however many languages just so somebody can come here and get as much as possible for free from the state.
  20. With you all the way on that mate!!!

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