Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

manpower crisis?

Y

yandex

Guest
It's that bad and worse. Not just the navy but the other two services as well.
There is a shortage of fit young men and women with wit available. Many are overweight and not the brightest of a poor bunch .
That's the way it is. What the solution is-- is for someone else to answer.
 

daedalus345

Midshipman
I personally would get rid of trident and spend that money on the rest of the navy...

the politicians want too much for too little money

from what ive read their cutting without making the big decisions about what services they want to get rid of, i.e. they are kicking the can down the road.

e.g. do they want the aircraft carriers or do they want trident?
 
Last edited:
Y

yandex

Guest
I personally would get rid of trident and spend that money on the rest of the navy...

the politicians want too much for too little money

from what ive read their cutting without making the big decisions about what services they want to get rid of, i.e. they are kicking the can down the road.

e.g. do they want the aircraft carriers or do they want trident?

A decent education to start with could well help. There Their and They're ie they are kicking the can down the road. I think that should more properly be e.g they're kicking the can down the road--Whatever that means.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
I don't think the manpower issues are hidden. They're massively complex and not well understood by many, thats entirely different from hidden.

The problems exist all over, look at the Army and RAF too, then look overseas to the USAF and the USN. Lots of complex, inter linked reasons.

Recruiting struggles - millennials and long periods away from home seem incompatible; salary expectations don't meet reality; engineering fragility causes cyclical deployment/moral issues; wider economy push/pull; HMT bearing down on manpower numbers and £ available; Defence inflation and National policies leading to complex/expensive procurements.

These are so interlinked you can solve one aspect and you cause a further issues elsewhere - its like squeezing a balloon.

There aren't any easy answers.
 
Y

yandex

Guest
I don't think the manpower issues are hidden. They're massively complex and not well understood by many, thats entirely different from hidden.

The problems exist all over, look at the Army and RAF too, then look overseas to the USAF and the USN. Lots of complex, inter linked reasons.

Recruiting struggles - millennials and long periods away from home seem incompatible; salary expectations don't meet reality; engineering fragility causes cyclical deployment/moral issues; wider economy push/pull; HMT bearing down on manpower numbers and £ available; Defence inflation and National policies leading to complex/expensive procurements.

These are so interlinked you can solve one aspect and you cause a further issues elsewhere - its like squeezing a balloon.

There aren't any easy answers.
Long periods away from home? You cannot be serious. Is it something to do with those degree holding lower ranks having contempt for those with poorer degrees having senior ranks? I would look there for the answers. Perhaps the recent cases of RN officers having it away with their female juniors results in a little disaffection.
I would look there too.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Long periods away from home? You cannot be serious. Is it something to do with those degree holding lower ranks having contempt for those with poorer degrees having senior ranks? I would look there for the answers. Perhaps the recent cases of RN officers having it away with their female juniors results in a little disaffection.
I would look there too.

Again, a little bit more vinegar and salt required?

Yes, 'long periods away', is one of the most often report reasons for dissatisfaction with the RN, and the broader Armed Forces, that and the associated instability factor.

ORs having degrees isn't new, I've had people in my Divisions over the last 20+years with degrees. Most didn't want to be Officers, didn't want the additional responsibilities, some changed over time and commissioned. Don't recall ever having anyone be chippy or holding anyone in contempt. Do these lower ranks really have better degrees - what does that even mean? More relevant - better grade - from a better academic institution? My current DACOS doesn't have a degree, I've three, does that mean I'm superior?

Officers having it away with female JRs - as long as it doesn't breach the social code of conduct or prejudice OC, does it matter. I honestly don't believe its a major contribution factor to the mixed manpower issues we have today. You fail to mention the number of SR and JR who have relationships with Officers - its a two way street!

You've some very odd perceptions.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I think the main problem is the slowness of promotion, there seem to be loads of Commanders and above just time serving, waiting to collect their pensions, thus slowing everything up.
 
Y

yandex

Guest
Again, a little bit more vinegar and salt required?

Yes, 'long periods away', is one of the most often report reasons for dissatisfaction with the RN, and the broader Armed Forces, that and the associated instability factor.

ORs having degrees isn't new, I've had people in my Divisions over the last 20+years with degrees. Most didn't want to be Officers, didn't want the additional responsibilities, some changed over time and commissioned. Don't recall ever having anyone be chippy or holding anyone in contempt. Do these lower ranks really have better degrees - what does that even mean? More relevant - better grade - from a better academic institution? My current DACOS doesn't have a degree, I've three, does that mean I'm superior?

Officers having it away with female JRs - as long as it doesn't breach the social code of conduct or prejudice OC, does it matter. I honestly don't believe its a major contribution factor to the mixed manpower issues we have today. You fail to mention the number of SR and JR who have relationships with Officers - its a two way street!

You've some very odd perceptions.
Odd perceptions perhaps but are they accurate ones? The social code isn't breached when the First Lieutenant is caught giving his female steward one. I'm not sure what code is broken but insurrection will surely follow, eventually.
You are looking for reasons why this sad state of affairs exists. I've provided a couple that you seek to ensure me bears no relationship with reality. I suggest you are wrong. Time will tell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
I think the main problem is the slowness of promotion, there seem to be loads of Commanders and above just time serving, waiting to collect their pensions, thus slowing everything up.

In Officer promotion terms, this is true in some branches but not most. The way you promote to SO1 and OF5 is very carefully managed and the use of 'man years' i.e. how long you have left, is clever in that you see most people promote with a very defined number of years (jobs) that they can achieve. In some branches, especially warfare, they do take more 'risk' and promote earlier to try to generate the people who will ultimately run the Navy.

Honestly, these days, "just time serving" isn't an option.

So I don't think that perceived bottle neck as such exists. The way we promote to OF5, is to exact jobs, and that can be very slow because the pyramid is smaller.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Odd perceptions perhaps but are they accurate ones?

If you think the root of our manning issues is down to grumpy JRs, upset with Officers with 'inferior' degrees, or relationships afloat - then I'd suggest not accurate in any way shape or form.

You are looking for reasons why this sad state of affairs exists. I've provided a couple that you seek to ensure me bears no relationship with reality. I suggest you are wrong. Time will tell.

I'm not seeking reasons? I provided a list of many of the causal instances the Navy is aware of. They are huge factors in our operational manning situation, I simply don't see JRs/SRs concerns over Officers degrees or relationships bearing the same relevance nor weight.
 
G

guestm

Guest
I don't know who runs the site or authors it's articles, but everything on 'Save the Royal Navy' really needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Their latest F35/QEC thing doing the rounds on Facebook is awful. And seriously ill informed too.

Much like Yandex. Our serial account creator and long time disliker of all things young, new or commisioned.

He'll go the same way as his other logins soon.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
I think Yandex is basing his conclusions on tabloid reporting, hearsay and out of date attitudes from the 50's.

Most of his hypothesis for the manning levels is, frankly, laughable.

To the OP, I would give him a good ignoring as he's been out of the loop for decades.
 
Last edited:
Y

yandex

Guest
I think Yandex is basing his conclusions on tabloid reporting, hearsay and out of date attitudes from the 50's.

Most of his hypothesis for the manning levels is, frankly, laughable.

To the OP, I would give him a good ignoring as he's been out of the loop for decades.
Then you must laugh. Trying to defend the indefensible is frankly laughable.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Then you must laugh. Trying to defend the indefensible is frankly laughable.

Laugh? I find it a bit depressing. I don't see anyone defending anything, but I see you raise issues which I don't think are right but are, to be frank, immaterial in the great scheme of things.

We face problems in the Navy that have been developing since the 80s and are the result of societal changes, economy changes and the policies of every flavour of Government we'd had over the last 35+ years and we're not alone.

In the face of these people bonking and JR/SR not valuing Officers pale into insignifiance.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
I don't know who runs the site or authors it's articles, but everything on 'Save the Royal Navy' really needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Their latest F35/QEC thing doing the rounds on Facebook is awful. And seriously ill informed too.

I agree, and knowing two of their main contributors fairly well I took them to task quite recently. They both have good Naval CVs but are very out of date and rely upon old colleagues, trade journals and normal press for most of their information. At their heart they are trying to support a noble cause, I just think their lack of relevance, currency and accuracy at times do more damage than good.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Then you must laugh. Trying to defend the indefensible is frankly laughable.
And laugh I will as you are so ill-informed and completely out of touch with the reality of the problems of the RN today to make your posts and opinions entirely irrelevant.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S RN manpower crisis - what can the RNR do? Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) 183
soleil ITV: "Royal Navy Under 'Significant Manpower Pressure'" Current Affairs 5
soleil Mail: "Manpower shortages hitting our war effort" Current Affairs 0
Maxi_77 MOD Manpower Status Current Affairs 10
D Is is the answer to the manpower shortage? Current Affairs 5
chieftiff Manpower Adjustments in Support To The Naval Service Current Affairs 2
janner Royal Naval Fleet and Manpower History 7
MoD_RSS Addressing a Syrian-led political transition and the humanitarian crisis in Syria MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Across borders: the UK’s multilateral response to a global health crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Responding to the humanitarian crisis in Yemen MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New research reveals best investments to tackle learning crisis in vulnerable countries MoD News 0
MoD_RSS The need for a political settlement to solve the crisis in Syria MoD News 0
MoD_RSS “Beyond the crisis” - speech to the aviation industry MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK-Egypt partnership at heart of global efforts to tackle climate crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Rohingya crisis: Three years on MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK pledges more aid for Beirut crisis at global summit MoD News 0
MoD_RSS A year of transformation, inclusion and continuity in crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Gurkha charity and Foreign Office staff support Gurkha veterans and Nepalese communities through Coronavirus crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK International Development Secretary gives strong commitment to help Bangladesh and Rohingya through the coronavirus crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Crisis in Venezuela: Foreign Office statement, 17 June 2020 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Gender impacts of the COVID-19 crisis MoD News 0
T Assessments during the Covid-19 crisis? RFA 4
MoD_RSS Dame Louise Casey calls on community partners to help with COVID-19 rough sleeping crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Joint statement on safety of journalists and access to information during the COVID-19 crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS "The world's worst humanitarian crisis can't afford to deteriorate any longer"- Calling for de-escalation in Yemen MoD News 0
MoD_RSS RAF delivers UK aid to Turkey for Syrians in crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Academy NW seminar: "Probation - in crisis or on the road to recovery?" MoD News 0
MoD_RSS New team of British medics to tackle measles outbreak in Samoa over Christmas as crisis continues to claim children’s lives MoD News 0
MoD_RSS The new normal: leadership in the climate crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK announces extra £87 million funding for Rohingya crisis in Bangladesh MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Statement to parliament: Oral statement to Parliament on the Ebola crisis in DR Congo MoD News 0
vauxhall NHS Chiefs Hold Emergency Talks Over Pensions Tax Crisis Finance & Pensions 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Yemen crisis won’t be solved by UK arms exports halt MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Addressing the Rohingya refugee crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Addressing the manmade humanitarian crisis in Venezuela MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: UK and NATO allies to test crisis response on exercise in Germany MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Press release: Penny Mordaunt: the Rohingya crisis must not be forgotten MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: New investment for businesses to tackle ocean plastics crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Addressing starvation and the humanitarian crisis in Yemen MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Call for a Political Settlement to Address the Humanitarian Crisis and Security... MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Speech: Recognising ECOWAS and Civil Society's Role in Resolving Crisis in Guinea-Bissau MoD News 1
Wightsparker Zimbabwe "crisis" Current Affairs 40
MoD_RSS Press release: Foreign Secretary in the Gulf to Discuss Countering Daesh and the Yemen Crisis MoD News 0
Stirlin Migrant crisis: Russia and Syria 'weaponising' migration Current Affairs 4
SONAR-BENDER ISIS Crisis? Diamond Lil's 4
C 1963 Cuban missile crisis - Malta & Gibraltar History 0
MoD_RSS News story: Syria crisis: Latest updates on UK aid MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News article: Foreign Office Minister updates on Algerian hostage crisis MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News article: The Foreign Secretary has commented on the hostage crisis in Algeria MoD News 0
MoD_RSS The Foreign Secretary has commented on the hostage crisis in Algeria MoD News 0
Similar threads


















































Top