manpower crisis?

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by daedalus345, Sep 8, 2016.

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  1. It's that bad and worse. Not just the navy but the other two services as well.
    There is a shortage of fit young men and women with wit available. Many are overweight and not the brightest of a poor bunch .
    That's the way it is. What the solution is-- is for someone else to answer.
  2. I personally would get rid of trident and spend that money on the rest of the navy...

    the politicians want too much for too little money

    from what ive read their cutting without making the big decisions about what services they want to get rid of, i.e. they are kicking the can down the road.

    e.g. do they want the aircraft carriers or do they want trident?
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  3. A decent education to start with could well help. There Their and They're ie they are kicking the can down the road. I think that should more properly be e.g they're kicking the can down the road--Whatever that means.
  4. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    I don't think the manpower issues are hidden. They're massively complex and not well understood by many, thats entirely different from hidden.

    The problems exist all over, look at the Army and RAF too, then look overseas to the USAF and the USN. Lots of complex, inter linked reasons.

    Recruiting struggles - millennials and long periods away from home seem incompatible; salary expectations don't meet reality; engineering fragility causes cyclical deployment/moral issues; wider economy push/pull; HMT bearing down on manpower numbers and £ available; Defence inflation and National policies leading to complex/expensive procurements.

    These are so interlinked you can solve one aspect and you cause a further issues elsewhere - its like squeezing a balloon.

    There aren't any easy answers.
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  5. Long periods away from home? You cannot be serious. Is it something to do with those degree holding lower ranks having contempt for those with poorer degrees having senior ranks? I would look there for the answers. Perhaps the recent cases of RN officers having it away with their female juniors results in a little disaffection.
    I would look there too.
  6. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Again, a little bit more vinegar and salt required?

    Yes, 'long periods away', is one of the most often report reasons for dissatisfaction with the RN, and the broader Armed Forces, that and the associated instability factor.

    ORs having degrees isn't new, I've had people in my Divisions over the last 20+years with degrees. Most didn't want to be Officers, didn't want the additional responsibilities, some changed over time and commissioned. Don't recall ever having anyone be chippy or holding anyone in contempt. Do these lower ranks really have better degrees - what does that even mean? More relevant - better grade - from a better academic institution? My current DACOS doesn't have a degree, I've three, does that mean I'm superior?

    Officers having it away with female JRs - as long as it doesn't breach the social code of conduct or prejudice OC, does it matter. I honestly don't believe its a major contribution factor to the mixed manpower issues we have today. You fail to mention the number of SR and JR who have relationships with Officers - its a two way street!

    You've some very odd perceptions.
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  7. I remember The Three Degrees!
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  8. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    I think the main problem is the slowness of promotion, there seem to be loads of Commanders and above just time serving, waiting to collect their pensions, thus slowing everything up.
  9. Odd perceptions perhaps but are they accurate ones? The social code isn't breached when the First Lieutenant is caught giving his female steward one. I'm not sure what code is broken but insurrection will surely follow, eventually.
    You are looking for reasons why this sad state of affairs exists. I've provided a couple that you seek to ensure me bears no relationship with reality. I suggest you are wrong. Time will tell.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2016
  10. Which Lodge?
  11. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    In Officer promotion terms, this is true in some branches but not most. The way you promote to SO1 and OF5 is very carefully managed and the use of 'man years' i.e. how long you have left, is clever in that you see most people promote with a very defined number of years (jobs) that they can achieve. In some branches, especially warfare, they do take more 'risk' and promote earlier to try to generate the people who will ultimately run the Navy.

    Honestly, these days, "just time serving" isn't an option.

    So I don't think that perceived bottle neck as such exists. The way we promote to OF5, is to exact jobs, and that can be very slow because the pyramid is smaller.
  12. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    If you think the root of our manning issues is down to grumpy JRs, upset with Officers with 'inferior' degrees, or relationships afloat - then I'd suggest not accurate in any way shape or form.

    I'm not seeking reasons? I provided a list of many of the causal instances the Navy is aware of. They are huge factors in our operational manning situation, I simply don't see JRs/SRs concerns over Officers degrees or relationships bearing the same relevance nor weight.
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  13. Nah. Not me. Pink gingham frocks, OK, but pinafores - no. Besides, I could be drummed out of the Royal and Ancient Order of Dinosaurs if I rolled up a trouser leg.
  14. I don't know who runs the site or authors it's articles, but everything on 'Save the Royal Navy' really needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Their latest F35/QEC thing doing the rounds on Facebook is awful. And seriously ill informed too.

    Much like Yandex. Our serial account creator and long time disliker of all things young, new or commisioned.

    He'll go the same way as his other logins soon.
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  15. I think Yandex is basing his conclusions on tabloid reporting, hearsay and out of date attitudes from the 50's.

    Most of his hypothesis for the manning levels is, frankly, laughable.

    To the OP, I would give him a good ignoring as he's been out of the loop for decades.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
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  16. Then you must laugh. Trying to defend the indefensible is frankly laughable.
  17. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Laugh? I find it a bit depressing. I don't see anyone defending anything, but I see you raise issues which I don't think are right but are, to be frank, immaterial in the great scheme of things.

    We face problems in the Navy that have been developing since the 80s and are the result of societal changes, economy changes and the policies of every flavour of Government we'd had over the last 35+ years and we're not alone.

    In the face of these people bonking and JR/SR not valuing Officers pale into insignifiance.
  18. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    I agree, and knowing two of their main contributors fairly well I took them to task quite recently. They both have good Naval CVs but are very out of date and rely upon old colleagues, trade journals and normal press for most of their information. At their heart they are trying to support a noble cause, I just think their lack of relevance, currency and accuracy at times do more damage than good.
  19. And laugh I will as you are so ill-informed and completely out of touch with the reality of the problems of the RN today to make your posts and opinions entirely irrelevant.

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