Mail: "Mutiny Or Sabotage? 60 Years Ago HMS Affray Mysteriously Disappeared"

#3
I quite agree Janner - and rather galling to read of him now attempting to weave the recent Astute incident into his speculations.

One review of his book (lots of others about) is here http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/royalnavy/historyp/historyp.html


The memorial website to HMS Affray includes

<<Portrait of a Disaster. A reasoned account to explain what may have happened to H.M Submarine “Affray” by Les Baker – a highly experienced ex-submariner and electrical artificer.>>

See hms affray
 
#4
I will just say that one of the photos in the Mail's article is badly mis-captioned. I rang the Mail to suggest a correction two hours ago, but they have left it as it stood, which is a pity.
 
#5
Soliel,

That slack journalism has also been noted within the comments beneath that article.

The Author is now joining in to debate the comments but no change as yet; whilst it remains unchanged his credibility can only continue to plummet.


Bob
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#6
I've read the book (got it from the library, glad I didn't pay for it), I wasn't impressed and there was some discussion the the author on another forum, I think it might have been the Barrow site but can't be sure.
 
#8
I am appalled that the grossly inaccurate caption to the irrelevant photo hasn't been changed. I hope it didn't appear in the hard copy version.

As for the book and article, they both seem based on sensationalist speculation that does a disservice to those who perished and their loved ones.
 
#9
As someone who has experienced snorting on a T boat (similar to an A boat) I would have no doubt, given the evidence from external examination of the wreckage that the snort mast failed, end of story..
These tossers who cloud the facts with fairy tales do no one any favours ...except of course themselves..
 
#10
As someone who has experienced snorting on a T boat (similar to an A boat) I would have no doubt, given the evidence from external examination of the wreckage that the snort mast failed, end of story..
These tossers who cloud the facts with fairy tales do no one any favours ...except of course themselves..
As far as I'm aware a weld failed on the snort induction causing the mast to snap off. The danger of recurrance of uncontrollable flooding was overcome by the fitting of the Emergency Flap Valve.
 
#11
Read bits of the bookm but wasnt too gripped by it. Seemed poorly thought out and badly researched. Didnt seem able to make any points with any sort of clarity.

I did read a fascinating article way back that pointed to a problem with the manufacture of the Snort Mast as being a strong possibility for causing the loss. Forget where to find it now but it seemed well considered.

A shame this Gallop fella is trying to cash in on the Astute timing but thats humanity for you
 
#12
I have just rung the News & Features desk at the Daily Mail and the offending photo has been removed.

Incidentally, diving operations on the wreck of the Affray had to be suspended after the 'shutter' failed to operate correctly on a remotely operated piece of experimental radiographic apparatus leaving the highly radioactive source unshielded.
 
#13
I've read the book (got it from the library, glad I didn't pay for it), I wasn't impressed and there was some discussion the the author on another forum, I think it might have been the Barrow site but can't be sure.
Janner,

Found it, by Peter D Hulme, and what a comperhensive review it is:

<<.......based on the experiences as a young man serving in the electrical branch on 'A' class submarines like AFFRAY...........

Particularly a book that clearly does not want the matter to be left to rest, but wants to apportion blame by inference and disturb the last resting place of these men in the pursuit of finding the reasons for the disaster and of course that is his privilege as it is mine to offer an alternative view.

The irony is that I could not have prepared these notes without the considerable research put into the book by the author, Alan Gallop. Very much a case of action bringing reaction.>>

Barrow Submariners Association
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
#14
Thanks Bob, I have intermittent emails form Peter Hulme, he now lives in NZ. Very knowledgeable chap and deeply researchs any article he writes, If you haven't found them there are several bits on the Barrow site from him, doing a lot about the diesel T boats. (He is the proud owner of a set of Dolphins that I sent out to him, kindly donated by an RR member, Peter left boats before they were issued)
 
#15
I have just rung the News & Features desk at the Daily Mail and the offending photo has been removed.

Incidentally, diving operations on the wreck of the Affray had to be suspended after the 'shutter' failed to operate correctly on a remotely operated piece of experimental radiographic apparatus leaving the highly radioactive source unshielded.
BZ Finally a result - and not before time, Rob.

Soliel tried earlier, several reader's comments had already pointed it out, as did the comment I winged off (not published) two hours ago.

Grrrr.
 
#16
Thats the British media. Little concerned with facts and even less concerned with who it offends. And unfortunately its the same from the tat rags right up to the broadsheets.
 
#17
The Mail asks "Mutiny or Sabotage" as if they were the only two options.As others have pointed out this is nothing short of a crude attempt to cash-in on the tragic death on the Astute.
 

Subsunk

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#19
As far as I'm aware a weld failed on the snort induction causing the mast to snap off. The danger of recurrance of uncontrollable flooding was overcome by the fitting of the Emergency Flap Valve.
Agreed. Strongly. I am at a loss to figure out who is bumming whom in the Mr Gallop/Daily Mail relationship.
 

Subsunk

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#20
The book that I recommend in order to counterbalance this sensationalist axis of evil poo tsunami is 'Subsunk' by Captain W O Shelford. Yes, out of the closet, but this guy was an old-school WW2 submariner who commanded HMS RECLAIM during the search for HMS AFFRAY, and the article in question is grade 1 arse which offends me on every level.
 
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