LSAP

[geoffrey]

Where's the long-promised LSAP increase announcement then? LSAP is mentioned twice in the 2007 report, but no increase is proposed.

Para 1.15 says:

It is clear from our visits that Service personnel have a strong focus on the need to get on the property ladder in the current market. Service life constrains this ambition and threatens retention. In this regard, personnel we met frequently commented on the Long Service Advance of Pay for house purchase – while new eligibility rules were welcomed, the level of £8,500 was universally considered insufficient.

And Para 4.4 says:

MOD considered that the level of the (£10,000 new RM) FRI would reflect the value of other financial retention measures and, alongside Long Service Advance of Pay, help Marines with house purchase.

Two points from these extracts:

1. So the AFPRB clearly recognise that £8500 barely pays for stamp duty on an average house these days, and needs to be increased. Why haven't they, then?

2. What's so special about Royal Marines that they need help with House Purchase but Royal Naval personnel (and soldiers and airmen) don't? This is ridiculous bias - or if it isn't - why include "house purchase" as a consideration in this section of the report?


I had heard, from all sorts of people, that this year there was going to be an announcement to increase LSAP from £8500 to £30,000 (I think), of which £10000 had to be paid back. The remaining £20000 was free money, but you'd lose entitlement to Boarding School Allowance (or whatever not-very-catchy thing its called now), GYH packages, plus a few other perks, and attract a return of service. This would have been much better than any FRI for bootnecks in retention terms, and allow everyone in the Forces to get a decent house as a First Time Buyer.

So where is it, then? Is this the reason the report was delayed by 3 weeks compared to last year? Did Tony Blair not want members of the Forces choosing to live where they want and possibly endanger his electoral chances nationwide? I smell a New Labour rat...

THIS is a huge coverup. WHERE is the LSAP increase?

 

[dhoby_bucket]

If LSAP is so effective why hasn't a similar type of thing been offered to the emergency services in places like London????

:???: :mrgreen:

 

[geoffrey]

Because they get London Weighting in their pay, they don't move between locations, they are entitled to "Key Worker" housing (something servicemen have only had since Jul 06), they go home at night, they can choose their shifts and hours, they get overtime, they are paid more as a basic salary, they can go on strike (knowing the Forces will cover for 2/3 of the pay), they have trade union representation, they are allowed to speak out in the media, US pilots don't shoot at them, increasing their funding get votes for the government, they don't get sent abroad against their will, they have very few residential training courses, their spouses and children don't have to follow them round the country, and best of all - they're not expected to die for their country (or someone else's) as part of the job.

Apart from that, I can't think why.

 

[dhoby_bucket]

Neither can I ....

 

[chieftiff]

You speak too soon Geoffrey, read para 1.12:

"The MOD briefed us in September 2006 on progress with its Strategic Remuneration Package.......................a concept paper would be produced by May 2007..............."

I think Prof Greenaway has let it be known that he expects to see an improvement in our overall package. Lets just hope it doesn't resemble the Strategic Defence Review!!!!

 

[janner]

Because they get London Weighting in their pay, they don't move between locations, they are entitled to "Key Worker" housing (something servicemen have only had since Jul 06), they go home at night, they can choose their shifts and hours, they get overtime, they are paid more as a basic salary, they can go on strike (knowing the Forces will cover for 2/3 of the pay), they have trade union representation, they are allowed to speak out in the media, US pilots don't shoot at them, increasing their funding get votes for the government, they don't get sent abroad against their will, they have very few residential training courses, their spouses and children don't have to follow them round the country, and best of all - they're not expected to die for their country (or someone else's) as part of the job.

Apart from that, I can't think why.

A lot of wrongly made points there Geoffrey, Police have no union, no right to strike, face disiplinary action if they go to the press (outside the guidelines), do not pick their hours, they are rostered and include nights, so no going home on those occasions, are frequently injured whilst on duty and sadly some are killed in the line of duty, thankfully not too many but, like service people, one is one too many

 

[chieftiff]

Because they get London Weighting in their pay, they don't move between locations, they are entitled to "Key Worker" housing (something servicemen have only had since Jul 06), they go home at night, they can choose their shifts and hours, they get overtime, they are paid more as a basic salary, they can go on strike (knowing the Forces will cover for 2/3 of the pay), they have trade union representation, they are allowed to speak out in the media, US pilots don't shoot at them, increasing their funding get votes for the government, they don't get sent abroad against their will, they have very few residential training courses, their spouses and children don't have to follow them round the country, and best of all - they're not expected to die for their country (or someone else's) as part of the job.

Apart from that, I can't think why.

A lot of wrongly made points there Geoffrey, Police have no union, no right to strike, face disiplinary action if they go to the press (outside the guidelines), do not pick their hours, they are rostered and include nights, so no going home on those occasions, are frequently injured whilst on duty and sadly some are killed in the line of duty, thankfully not too many but, like service people, one is one too many

Hmmmm, but he didn't specifically mention Police Officers, who do get overtime, do get to go home, are and have been for quite some time, entitled to key worker housing allowance, don't get sent abroad to fight, don't get moved around the country and nobody in reality expects them to die for their country, did I mention the starting wage after training of £23,454?

I think Geoffrey's point was valid...... although exagerated :lol: You on the other hand Janner appear to be paranoid :wink:

 

[dhoby_bucket]

Para-noid??? Sounds like a pongo term to me..

 

[geoffrey]

I wasn't talking only about the police, actually, more about t'other services, but since you ask...

Police have no union

Apart from the Police Federation, the Superintendents Association, the Association of Chief Police Officers. Yes, I know they're not unions, but near as dammit...

no right to strike

But they can work to rule, can't they? I know they wouldn't anyway, as they have an excellent work ethic - but if you're allowed to moan to the press, and every tabloid worships you - there's no need to strike!

face disiplinary action if they go to the press (outside the guidelines)

The magic "outside the guidelines" there. They won't get court martialled though, lose their job and (in extremis) get jailed, though, will they?

do not pick their hours, they are rostered and include nights, so no going home on those occasions

Ah, diddums. Still, the enormous overtime payments probably make up for the occasional night shift, as does the TOIL, extra days off (my mate works 4 days nights, 5 days off, 4 days day, 2 days off) and ability to swap roster positions.

are frequently injured whilst on duty

Which is sad, but probably not by a US policeman, while miles away from criminals, after being wrongly identified as a foreign armed robber from the distinctive helmet.

and sadly some are killed in the line of duty, thankfully not too many but, like service people, one is one too many

Your absolutely right there, but figures I read recently are that a policeman has a 9% chance of dying on duty compared to a serviceman. And no Station Sergeant can order a PC to die for the "Force".

I take my hat off to coppers - they do a great job, in very tough conditions (I wouldn't want to patrol Union St this time on a Friday), and are supremely professional and hard working. However, they are paid a lot more, have much better T&Cs of service, are politically acceptable to fund (unlike us), are civilians - with all the rights of civilians. No copper joins Devon & Cornwall police, finds out 2 yrs later he's being sent to Hampshire Constabulary for 5 years, oh and by the way when he finishes that he's going to be away for 6 months working with the Falklands Police!

My point was (and is) that the other emergency services only ever have to live in the area they joined up in. So LSAP is completely irrelevant to them. My question was - when are they improving LSAP?

Anyone? Bueller?

 

[F169]

Interesting statement from page 8 of the AFPRB report:

Our analysis covered the Fire Service, Police, Prison Service, MOD Police Service and Ambulance Service. Because of the different career structures attached to these services, and the varying ages of entry and terms and conditions, the overall package available in each service varies widely. Nevertheless, after making adjustments for X-Factor and pensions, the packages available to other uniformed civilian services continue to appear
to be comparatively advantageous, especially compared to the most Junior Ranks.

 

[silverfox]

Fair point Geoffrey - just before Christmas 2SL said exactly what you said in your first post.... and where is it now?

 

[silverfox]

or was that discussion under Chatham House Rules? I forget...

 

[geoffrey]

or was that discussion under Chatham House Rules? I forget...

If it was, you could always change your 1st post to "a senior officer who lives in Pompey dockyard said"....