Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for Forces'

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by thingy, Nov 22, 2007.

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  1. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    And did you see the rest of GB's problems on the same news: QuintiQ & Poll Ratings.

    It's all turning to rats shit.
  2. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    ....and he waited for the pension, perks and lordship before gobbing off....
  3. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    Maybe so, but more and more of their Lordships are now gobbing off. If the 1 SL or the Head of the Army did the same, they'd just be replaced with the government's next "yes" man.
    Ex service chiefs in the upper house have a better chance of getting things changed than present serving chiefs, sad fact but true.
  4. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    You have a point, sadly we'll never know if they gobbed of in office. Dannet does but opens himself up to media ridicule every time, so far he's been able to get away with it but I can unfortunatley see the day when he's labelled a whinger by the media when it suits them too. unthinkable now but it will happen.
  5. I served with Mike Boyce when he was a Lt, and later met him when he was CSST at Faslane in the mid 70s. IIRC, when Hoon was Minister of Defence, the Minister said on TV we could do all this stuff, and Boyce said no we can't, we haven't got the assets to do it. Shortly afterwards, Boyce had his tenure as CDS cut short - not because he was due a relief, but because he dared speak out against the Politicos: check the length of time he had as CDS against his predessors - yes men whilst in office, very vociferous since. Good on you, Sir Michael - carry on what you started in office, and tell it how it was and still is..
  6. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For


    Five former defence chiefs spoke during the Lords debate, during which there were calls to improve levels of military funding.

    Sorry but i disagree. The funding is there or there abouts (yes we`d all want more), its the way its being spent that is all wrong.

    The first port of call the money goes to is the MOD. They take their share then the rest filters down to the Army, RN and RAF. Talk to anybody in the three services and they`ll all tell the same story of missing kit/spares with its compromise of mission and morale. Then look at the MOD with its fancy buildings, free gym membership, overseas team briefings (Portugal and the like,not Iraqistan obviously).
    If the forces were funded first they`d be no cash crisis. Its the same as the NHS, everyone can see that its over-managed, yet the first time theres a problem people want more money thrown at it.

    I`ve said it before-the biggest threat to our armed forces is not terrorists, the red bear flexing its muscles or the axis of evil getting nukes, its our MOD. All the rest may kill us in ones,tens or even thousands, but only the MOD has the power to dis-spirit a whole generation till theres no armed forces left.
  7. Very good point Rocket Ron. Labour's answer to the NHS crisis in 1997 was to throw money at it. One could argue things have got worse since, only instead of being told about it we now get colourful briefing papers with executive summaries and go to international conferences about it.

    Throwing money at a problem doesn't work if the money goes to the wrong people. Example - how many months go by when serving RR members don't get a survey from a:cet to fill in, on behalf of the MoD? These surveys cost a bloody fortune, and the MoD budget foots the bill! I make a point of making this comment on every survey I get!
  8. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    I disagree with that clichéd sentiment. He went into bat before TELIC 1. Ruffled many political feathers. Short memories.
  9. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    The Captain of Ark Royal spoke on the radio this morning and stated that he had no problems, he is fully supported, has a well trained ships company and is ready to carry out what ever task the goverment has for him.
  10. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    He probably hasn't any problems (but he could also be after a political appointment as well as a 'Sir' - I don't mind being corrected on this bit). When you are a part of unit you do your best, because of respect for your comrades, mates, oppos, skipper whatever, or pride in what you are doing or trying to do, despite the blatant non-support from some of this governments hierarchy.

    The point is that morale is very low in respect of political support, but this is endemic with Nu Liebour, Old liebour or even the Libs ( Mini Liebour), although I have been out of the service for quite a few years I still have mates who have offspring serving.

    The Reduced Manning Standard of the years when I served must be like overmanning compared to what the guys in now must be experencing.

    Twigg was being interveiwed yesterday - you could almost see the wires running from his back to No 10 - but you can't only lay this at Brown's feet, Bliar was a great part of the destruction of the Services.

    Those MPs who continually sqwauk / bleat about how hard they work (and must have a payrise - 60% was quoted last time - and they are most probably going to get it !!) really do not help the funding of the services nor the morale of the people, but they don't really care about the morale of the troops because, in their eyes, at the end of the day you are only there as cannon fodder to promote their egos.

    :| (but not really... )
  11. Because he is required to.
  12. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    And I am bl**dy sure his brief was written for him by DPRN or what ever they are called today. Either 5 retired officers are lying, or the government is lying, I know which one my money is on.

    THsi lot have moved on to the next level beyond spin, just look at the things that are crawling out of the woodwork over the HMRC data loss now that it is out in the open.

    NuLanor is now Dead Labor. I just wish that enough labour backbenchers had the courage and guts to pull this government down but of course to many of them know they will lose their place at the trough if they do.
  13. I remember this well, Mike Boyce publicly making Buff(Hoon) look a twat on TV - he paid the price. I also remember Boyce as a relatively young Captain (I was a Chief at the time) he had an aura about him and, even from my limited perspective at the time, I could see he was going places. We need people like him more than ever.
  14. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    Lord Boyce pointed out that this Government has ordered eight warships since 1997 and, in the same period, has got rid of 57 ships.

    Whatever happened to the minimum requirements laid down in the 1997 Strategic Defence Review (SDR - 32 frigates and destroyers, 22 minehunters and 10 SSNs)? On top of that, the reckless scrapping of the Sea Harrier means that the Fleet (what's left of it) will remain bereft of organic fighter cover for the foreseeable future. Some people still need reminding that we are a maritime nation dependent on the sea for 95% of our trade (including inconsequentials like oil, raw materials, food, clothing, consumer goods, etc.) from some pretty unstable parts of the world.

    Thank God some high profile people are starting to tell it like it is. UKNDA anyone?
  15. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    I heard the skipper of the Ark this morning too. He must be GS through and through as he obviuosly hasn't spoken to any of his embarked assets, be they fixed or rotary winged. Like the rest of the Fleet, those assets are kept going by the professionalism of the troops, a can do attitude and usually a Hangar Mary being robbed quietly for the duration of the trip.
    Mind you, its one way to get promoted...........
  16. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    The CO of Ark did indeed state he "had everything he needed to meet his operational role". I wonder what that role is? I wonder how many OPDEF's he's carrying and just how many aircraft he has in his hangers? It was a terse political answer; after all the chap wants to make Admiral....
  17. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    I really, really would like to see a Military Coup (no I am not joking) to get rid of this government.
    I fear for my grand - and great grand kids future.
  18. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    I stand corrected.
  19. Re: Lord Boyce criticises the PM who 'shows contempt for For

    All that was onboard were a detachment of lynx for Aircrew training!
    He should have stood up and asked where is our fighter wing!

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