Looks good. Think i might join?


Book Reviewer
I'd love to, but the local RCNR unit is a mere 200km away in Ottawa, and all the sea-going units are a good day's drive away (ca 10-12 hours non-stop!) to the East, or 3-4 days non-stop to the West. All my local reserve units wear a uniform that is a funny shade of green (just like what many of the RNR are wearing in fact! :) ).

Has any other "old fart" from 10 MCM days noticed a passing resemblance between the RCNR patrol boats and the old RNR MSFs? I can remember on Carron, during one of the Linked Seas or Open Gate type exercises in the late 80s, that we had a Canuck Reserve occifer on exchange to see how we operated the Rivers.
It is a shame though that a "small" navy such as RCN seems to have a very real role with very real equipment for reservists and the RN, well, in a word, doesn't!
Join the RNR, wear green and do no seamanship whatsoever. Have your training days limited to next to nothing, have ORT opportunities restricted once you've qualified because you need to go "as a team" and recieve 4 weeks training before you can be deployed anywhere etc etc etc.

Whats happening to the RNR i know and love, sniff, sniff :cry:
I agree that some regions are better than others and if you look at the locations of the units the one's nearer the coast/naval bases do tend to have better contacts which may allow them to undertake training that other units struggle with.

One thing i like about the RCNR video is when they say that their recruits guard ports at weekends as part of their training. Not rocket science but it has to be the best way to train people.


Lantern Swinger
As one old fart from the 10MCM days to another, yes there were RCN guys around and there was talk of selling MSF's (not ours but new ones) to the Canadians. Knowing what I do now about how the Canadians man their offshore industry and insist thateverything is built in Canada by Canadians we never stood a chance!

I ampretty sure that there was also a deployment to Canada with the MSFs as well.

Speaking as an old fart, I was never able to see the logic of taking away basic sea training from the RNR if people were needed to fill RN sea going billits. How can anyone of any rank be expected to go to sea and perform efficiently if they are not used to it? If nothing else, the MSFs (and Tons and any other available craft) gave people a chance to get used to living in mess decks, doing watches, and surviving on a bouncy platform moving in a 3-D envelope.

Even the concept of a local unit representing the white ensign in far flung parts of the UK had its merits for recruiting etc.

What has happened to the RNR I used to love?

I can NOW see your frustration, and understand how you must feel.

I appologise for all my previous comments with regards the RNR roles.

I did not, until this weekend, understand how restricted your roles have become. It is a travisty, I am sure that soon the RNR role will be reviewed, and all the reservists will find that their roles will improve and be less restricted.

Good luck for the future.

Thanks for that Pinch.

When i joined, only 7 years ago, there was;

Mine Warfare

and probably some more that i cant quite remember.
These days we have AWFP which can be fun but is extremly limited. :sad1:
CIS which, from what i have seen, doesnt do anything, at all, ever!!!! :crash:
Logs which do seem to be in demand. :salut:
Mine warfare where apparently you sit in a portacabin with computers and maps telling Admirals what his ships are and aren't capable of. :violent1:
Medical, at least if you are already qualified in civvy street. :angel4:
MTO, I really dont know what they do. Something to do with ports and merchant ships i think. :scratch:

Don't bother biting guys, most of the above is tongue in cheek.

I can feel anonther thread coming on!
Doesn't suprise me in the slightest. :thanks:

I'm in the process of preparing another one of my Intellectually packed threads.

I'm sure the suspense is killing you :wav:
There is now AWFP (relief for FPGRM), Logs (in demand, but from the Army not the Navy) and MTO (spent 6 months in that branch and still not sure what they do. Involves sitting in Northwood)

Seagoing opportunities VERY limited. "What is the requirement for you to go to sea" is the usual response to this, but you'd think it's obvious that we joined to go to sea, otherwise we'd have joined the TA.


Lantern Swinger
Old 10MCM speaking.

As it was in my time, there are still too many TLAs in the RNR.

I really have very little idea what all these "branches" are or what they do.

As far as I was concerned though, the whole point of joining/being part of the RNR as a student was the chance to go to sea at weekends (and in the university holidays as well - it beat working in a pub and paid more too) and learning how to "drive" a ship.

The feeling of navigating/keeping watch on one of HM ships on your own and realising that you are able and allowed to do it is something special. I am just glad that I can say I have done it.

Despite my own family RN background, I do not think the RNR would have anything to offer me if I was a student today. I knew qualified doctors who joined as Mids just to get to sea (yes, they were economical with the truth!) and as I have said before what is the point of a back-up, volounteer reserve that has NO real sea going experience?

I do admire those who are trying to get some Navy into their lives and wish them all the best but I really hope that maybe, sometime, someone will realise that a seagoing RNR can be a viable proposition again. If not, what is the point of being second best?

Today's Royal Navy is very different from yesterdays (sorry for stating the bleedin obvious)
However this means the RNR of today will be different from yesterday.

With H&S and other legislation (STW), many of the roles on a sea-going steely grey bringer of death and destruction on enemies of Her Majesty, now require training and currency that simply cannot be provided in an annual 2 week training package and 1 weekend a month.

I'm sure this will invoke a thread of rants with many saying but what about ....... and ....... however the plain and simple truth is that if the MoD allowed Reservists to do 95% of the jobs onboard a steamer, they would be open to £M and £M of compensation claims when somebody gets injured and trys to sue.

However, as with the brillcream boys (and girls) and flying, not everyone has to go to sea to feel part of the RNR or RN. Thus, posts like Upper Deck Sentry and other tasks where the RNR/RN can give adequete training, are very much in demand.

There are also a plethora of posts/jobs on dry land in support of the Fleet (or Army). Granted these may not be as "sexy" as being thrown around a messdeck in a storm force 10, but you can't have every thing.

Bottom Line, try not to fight the system, try to fight with it - thus ensuring you can influence the changing state of the RNR.

Now let's see how many grumpy so and sos rant at me for that!

ASDIC said:
if the MoD allowed Reservists to do 95% of the jobs onboard a steamer, they would be open to £M and £M of compensation claims when somebody gets injured and trys to sue.
What happened to Crown immunity?
Apart from the fact it was lost over 5 years ago?

And one of the most often questions asked by XOs on completion of the OXDC is "can the RN recommend a decent liability insurance company, that would cover me if I got sued, and will the RN pay the premiums,"

Sadly, even HM Forces are now in the liability game.

(and yes, id does suck, but sod all we [or the RNR/RN] can do about it)


Lantern Swinger
more to the point, the RNR has evolved to meet the requirements of its functional employer. The need for seagoing staff is minimal (there being not many ships left) and the time needed to bring someone up to speed is just too great - easier to recruit from scratch. The RNR provides very useful skills in a whole range of niche roles which may not be seagoing, but without which defence as a whole would struggle.
dunkers said:
ASDIC said:
if the MoD allowed Reservists to do 95% of the jobs onboard a steamer, they would be open to £M and £M of compensation claims when somebody gets injured and trys to sue.
What happened to Crown immunity?
REVOKED Mate.. and some considerable time ago 1997 or there abouts


Lantern Swinger
Sorry to bump this up but I do feel strongly about it all.

Have to admit that this is the first time I have come across Crown Immunity being invalid - to be honest first time I have come across Crown Immunity anyway! Why we have lost this immunity in the first place is a different arguement.

The arguement for STCW requirements is however valid in that an unqualified person is potentially putting other vessels at risk, so we must ask if it would it be possible for the RNR to meet these standards.

Just asking the question - do RN watchkeepers meet STCW requirements as they spend less time at sea as their MN counterparts and the role is totally different? How many RN watchkeepers/officers (who seemingly meet STCW standards) are qualified for tank inspections, cargo operations, ISPC etc. etc? I am only asking! I can not remember how many hours we had to do to get a "ticket" but apart from doing the time there were continuous tests as well. I do know that the majority of RNR watchkeepers took it seriously and acted professionally. Those of us who did get our tickets for Tons/MSFs put in a lot of time - most were admitedly either students, self employed or were ex RN or MN.

It may not be the prime role for the RNR but is there no way that RNR seagoing could be recognised as at least part of a recognised qualification? Being a security guard on a gangway may meet ISPC codes but does not offer much more!

What about the ex-RN guys or the MN (List 1?) officers? If they keep in date with their seagoing/training are they still not qualified? Again, I simply ask the question but it seems a waste of training if a qualified ex-RN guy simply goes to waste when he/she leaves the mob (unless he/she retains a call-up comittment but even so, are their tickets still in date for STCW requirements).

We come back to what the role of the RNR - and indeed the RN is. Roles that could be undertaken by part time but qualified seagoing personnel fall into what other countries call "coastguard" duties. In the UK, many of these roles are civilian so the RN seems to be solely about what bluewater tasks remain and these roles and the ships/people that fulfill them clearly need specialised training.

The point of my post however remains the same - I joined the RNR to go to sea and that was the major attraction for those of us who got involved. As one of my COs said, at sea the other ship does not know that you are RNR so you have to be professional.

Sorry,but what seems to be on offer today in the RNR does nothing at all for me! Rant over.


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