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LOA and the Falklands - Advice needed

dolphin_points

Midshipman
I hope somebody can help me. Currently in the Falklands for a draft. The RAF seem to say we are not entitled to LOA because we receive the Welfare Package. This is fine but some RAF on the Island get LOA and some don't. There are less than 50 matelots so we don't get much say. The visiting ships get the welfare package and LOA. The JSP contradicts itself on the same page. Does anyone out there understand the rules and also where can I go to challenge the situation.
Many thanks
 
First step to me would be to see your DO. Unless you are the DO.

Whats happened? Are you no longer told the score before you get drafted anywhere?
 
higthepig said:
First step to me would be to see your DO. Unless you are the DO.

Whats happened? Are you no longer told the score before you get drafted anywhere?

I can remeber just how difficult it could be as a DO or any one else for that matter to get the correct info, so asking around makes sense to me, perhaps it's time to reign in the crusade higs
 
Oh dear Maxie, there is no crusade, i may be wrong but is it not the duty of a DO to find out? By whatever means, if he can`t find out by higher authorities than we seem to be in deep shit.
 
No point asking the crabs or pongos shipmate.
If you can't get the answers locally, have a look on jpa to find out where your parent unit actually is, iirc its been pompey for a while. You may have to email one of the "writers" at Nelson for an answer, but good luck with that :roll:
 

BoxKickerSubs

Lantern Swinger
dolphin_points said:
I hope somebody can help me. Currently in the Falklands for a draft. The RAF seem to say we are not entitled to LOA because we receive the Welfare Package. This is fine but some RAF on the Island get LOA and some don't. There are less than 50 matelots so we don't get much say. The visiting ships get the welfare package and LOA. The JSP contradicts itself on the same page. Does anyone out there understand the rules and also where can I go to challenge the situation.
Many thanks

Is that you Carl?
 

dolphin_points

Midshipman
Thanks Hig for the Oh So Helpful comments. Yes I am the DO and yes I've tried the UPO (PSF as the RAf call it). I've tried the Senior Naval Officer on the Island as well. We no longer come under Nelson for anything so they are not much help either. Just thought someone might be able to give guidance as Chapter 6 of JSP 752 contradicts itself. The SNO wants clarification before he is prepared to take it any further, but not entirely sure who to turn. We get permanently drafted here so my parent unit is RAF !! RN overseas unit have informed us they have nothing to do with us now.
 
Sad to hear it, as I mentioned earlier, if that is the true case, which I`m quite sure that it is, then we seem for some reason or other to be in the shit.

It does seem odd however, that no-one higher up seems to know the answer.
 

dolphin_points

Midshipman
From what info I can gather this in JSP 752 says we are entitled to it:
06.0108. Main Stations. Main Stations for LOA purposes are overseas locations where 20 or more Service persons are permanently assigned. If the strength of a location varies above or below the 20 limit, or when other factors apply (eg regular ship visits or major exercises), SP Pol Allces will determine whether Main Station status should apply. For locations where there are less than 20 Service personnel permanently assigned, SSLOA is normally payable (see Section 3 to this Chapter). LOA at Main Stations is paid at different rates depending upon rank, Personal Status Category (PStat Cat) and numbers of accompanying dependent children. Rates payable at LOA Main Stations are as follows:

a. Full Rate of LOA. The Full Rate of LOA is paid to Service personnel on permanent assignment overseas.

This next bit is what they are saying means we don't get it:

INELIGIBILITY

06.0111. Ineligible Personnel. Service personnel and/or their immediate family are ineligible to receive LOA under the following circumstances:
a. During assignment on operations or exercises for which the Operational Welfare Package is in effect although, for eligible personnel, Residual Rates for permanent assignment areas will still be admissible.

They are saying that the Falklands is an operational theatre, but it the residual rates for permanent assignment areas that I don't quite get. Also its only an operational theatre when it suits them.
 

silverfox

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
IIRC - if you don't get LOA (which is a flat rate dependant upon rank), which I don't think you should, you should get LSA- or whatever its called now, which is based upon cumulative time away - the equivalent of what used to LSSB - the qualification period for which is on the bottom right hand corner of your pay statement. Thats what we got in Iraq etc when on the Op Welfare package.

NELSON should be able to help as they have overseas desks for everywhere else, and in any case - its not like you are the first people down there. I shall enquire of my UPO tomorrow.
 

TheCommunicator

Lantern Swinger
dolphin_points said:
but it the residual rates for permanent assignment areas that I don't quite get. Also its only an operational theatre when it suits them.
The residual rates for permanent assignments refers to personnel who are serving on LFS and in receipt of LOA for that location (Germany, Italy, Cyprus etc) who are subsequently deployed on an op-tour (FI, Telic, Herrick etc)

Their LOA for their LFS country is not stopped while they are absent, it is reduced to a level which takes account of the fact that they will still have commitments at their LOA station which remain while they are deployed. Such as wife, kids, car to insure, house to insure etc

Regarding ships, you are correct in stating they are in receipt of OWP however, the rate of LOA received is a reduced amount - Seagoing LOA. I can't remember the reason this was allowed, I think it is because the OWP for a ship is not as good as OWP ashore

You will probably find you are better off not having LOA and being in receipt of OWP. I spent some time in Cyprus waiting to deploy into Iraq in 2003. If we had received LOA then we would have had to pay food and accommodation so we would have been worse off.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
dolphin_points said:
Thanks Hig for the Oh So Helpful comments. Yes I am the DO and yes I've tried the UPO (PSF as the RAf call it). I've tried the Senior Naval Officer on the Island as well. We no longer come under Nelson for anything so they are not much help either. .

You are a PJOB and hence come under JSU Northwood - Call them, the Lt pusser there (Mark) is a good lad with some decent writers who always help.
 

dolphin_points

Midshipman
Many thanks for all the info. With regards to OWP, I pity ships if theirs is worse than what we receive here on the Falklands. My main drip is that some of the RAF appear to be receiving it. Until recently we had one RN receiving it here. When he queried why he got it and not everyone else they stopped it for a month and then reinstated it. As matelots we don't like to think we are being seen off. It might be that we are not dipping out, just not dipping in as much as others!!!!
 
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