Libya what now?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by seafarer1939, Aug 22, 2011.

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  1. It's the end for the old bloodthirsty Tyrant so what now?Have we opened up the Country to a can of worms?
    They say no but Fundamentalism thrives on the weak and the replacement Government may not be strong enough to resist Al Quaida.
    Consensus down the watering hole is that we may regret it with all that oil up for grabs to the enemies of the West.
    Have we?
     
  2. Who's this we, **** all to do with me and I don't give a shite what happens to it.
     
  3. You will if they cut off oil and start beheading all Westerners! if so, it makes another nail in the coffin of the Mid East as a safe place to go on holiday and work .IMO
     
  4. Easy to say but what if a UN peace keeping force goes in surely britain is obligated to provide troops ??????????????
     
  5. Once again another of our leaders has ordered our Armed Forces into a war fighting situation without any idea what the consequences will be.
     
  6. My daughter's ship has returned from a 6 month deployment last month, and is due to relieve the Liverpool soon. We have been told to not expect them back until Easter 2012. Hopefully with this weekends events, that may be reduced significantly.
     
  7. I heard a "Rebel" leader talking on the radio this morning and the message was "Ta very much NATO for all your help but you can piss off now and leave the rest to us".I think we should take the hint and FRO because if we try and stand in the way of whatever is likely to happen next we'll be accused of being interefering.
     
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  8. It is unlikely that the pro Gaddafi's will be totally vanquished, they will disappear in the gloom and continue to create mayhem. The power vacuum that will inevitably come will be fertile ground for the extremists to exploit.
     
  9. The whole of the Middle East is on the move.....whether it looks good or bad, I'd prefer to remain optimistic.These people didn't topple Gadaffi for no reason, many want democracy. News at the weekend indicated an international political effort to support a smooth move to a stable govt. 'Lessons from Iraq' quoted.......

    Essentially, it's up to the Libyans but I think they are in a better position than other countries because they started the ball rolling. It wasn't a western invasion.Fingers crossed, eh ? :)

    No doubt the UK would have secured it's own oil supply from them....possibly part of the deal for helping them out ?
     
  10. Interesting developments. It appears that the gloves are off with regard to exploiting the oil-backed largesse of the new Libyan regime. This from Tuesday's Telegraph:
    France, of course, also sent a bloody big aircraft carrier and supplied arms to the rebels.

    A couple of hours ago, Sarkozy and Mahmoud Jibril (Head of the Libyan NTC and earmarked as Prime Minister) gave a press conference in Paris announcing that the French will host an international conference next week to discuss the future of Libya. Before you ask, the UK has been invited as notional 'co-host' along with Russia, China, India and Brazil:
     
  11. I think the Libyan rebels might have a little more on the agenda this weekend rather than swanning off to Paris to chew the fat.The Frogs,of course, are keen to get on to things they really care about i.e. themselves.It is true they have put a great deal of time and resources into securing the downfall of Gadaffi but this was merely a means to an end and they are fully expecting to turn a profit at the end of the day.
     
  12. Is our involvement any different?
     
  13. The French are first in the queue...........they're nearer.
     
  14. fishhead - I don't think all of the rebels are expected to attend the meeting but the new regime certainly needs to hit the ground running where the payment of foreign company employees and government workers is concerned. Reconstruction can come later.
     
  15. Magda

    Magda War Hero Book Reviewer

    I am interested to see what will happen if/when Gaddafi is tracked down. Will he be summarily tried and executed by the rebels, or will they pass him to the ICC and by doing so try and establish themselves as a democratic, legitimate state? Clearly, my choice would be for the latter.

    I would very much like to see the NTC do their level best to create a democratic Libya and give them the freedom they so obviously crave. In order to do so, they are going to require outside help. This is where things get tricky - undoubtedly the UK will want to be involved in any developments as they will, frankly, want to keep on the NTC's good side and get their hands on Libya's oil. I have no issue with this - it's a commodity we unfortunately cannot do without. As William Hague droned on the radio sometime today, we are going to contribute money, supplies, workers, diplomats and so on to help the Libyans rebuilt what has been destroyed.

    What the government must be wary of is interfering too much with what the rebels might see as their finest hour, their one chance to prove that they can rule themselves. If we do, we run the risk of being help up as hypocrites - we can organise and order everyone else around but conveniently turn a blind eye to the issues creeping just under the surface in the UK. Unfortunately, our detractors can now hold up lovely HD footage as filmed by the "gr8 n gud of de Yew Kay", showing how we need to solve our own problems before trying to tell everyone else how to solve theirs.

    I would argue that are going to have to do a fair amount of schweet talkin' to make sure we get a share of what Libya has to offer - unsurprisingly our Gallic comrades have pipped us to the post and are jostling to be at the head of the oil distribution lists. Toeing a fine line between officiousness and a desire to help will be this government's big challenge and I'm afraid I can't see Big D being very good at it. But then, I can't see ANY of them being very good at subtlety mixed with honesty.

    P'raps we should just rattle up to this conference, shrug in that delightfully Gallic way at the Frogs and ask the NTC outright whether they are willing to do us a deal - if we help them rebuild, will they give us oil in return? Short, sweet and to the point.

    Politics according to Magda :-D
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
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  16. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    I wonder what safeguards are in place to ensure this money we propose to give away is actually used for what is announced? I imagine a largish amount will be stolen.
     
  17. There is no need to worry on that score. I believe that Tony Blair is already bound for Libya.He'll ensure that the right percentages of money are filtered in the right direction.
     
  18. (granny)

    (granny) War Hero Book Reviewer

    Since when have 'safeguards' ever bothered us ? As for Libya, winning the war was the easy part. Winning the peace will be far more difficult.
     
  19. jockpopeye

    jockpopeye Badgeman Book Reviewer

    My predictions:

    Nascent democracy supported by Western Governments

    This eventually morphs into a local hardman, less democracy and greater corruption. Western Powers take a pragmatic non-interventionist view as long as they can do business for oil.

    Long term Western business competes more for oil with pushy Chinese, Western Goverments change and don't give a shit about the efforts of their predecessors and the populaton wonders why the fcuk we ever got invovled in the first place.
     
  20. Magda

    Magda War Hero Book Reviewer

    BBC: "Bodies everywhere" at Tripoli hospital

    The hospital staff fled because fighting got too close, but people brought wounded rebels and civilians there because they thought it was still operational... Can only imagine what the volunteers found when they arrived.

    Who is to blame? Was it rebel or loyalists who brought the fighting too close to a hospital, thereby frightening away the staff (understandably, perhaps)? Instinct would blame the loyalists but instinct clearly does not constitute a legal case. Is this mass murder and can it be brought to a court of law? Aren't civilian hospitals supposed to be protected from attack under the Geneva Convention? Although I suppose they would treat everyone, rebel or civilian, making it a military hospital in effect.

    I think this may well be one of many horrific incidents to have occurred in Libya in the previous 6 months, and as the beginning of the end of the hostilities draws near, we'll be "treated" to more appalling images and videos.
     

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