Libya; Russia criticises the Western-led air strikes

#1
Russia is saying that the continuing air-strikes amount to taking sides in a civil war and breached the terms of a United Nations Security Council resolution.

I have to agree, we have levelled the playing field and it is now time to withdraw and let the Libyan's sort it out one way or another.
 
#2
Russia is saying that the continuing air-strikes amount to taking sides in a civil war and breached the terms of a United Nations Security Council resolution.

I have to agree, we have levelled the playing field and it is now time to withdraw and let the Libyan's sort it out one way or another.
Apart from the armour and heavy artillery still being fielded by government troops, despite what the crabs (nations various) have knocked out.
 
#3
Apart from the armour and heavy artillery still being fielded by government troops, despite what the crabs (nations various) have knocked out.
Who cares, it is my opinion that we have done enough especially as no Arab war- planes have yet fired on forces loyal to Gaddafi.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#4
As remarked earlier:

... the coalition, instead of defending the civilian population from direct attack, iaw Resolution 1973, start to fight on the side of the rebels, bombing military targets not actually directly threatening the civilian population. This also happened in Iraq where the Kurds were encouraged to rebel against Saddam by the West, then slaughtered mercilessly.

The perception could well be that the coalition are not just protecting civilian population, in fact they can't even decide whether or not they are targetting Gaddafi politically or militarily.

Qatar are currently going out on a limb, but there are civil riots in several other Muslim oil producing countries also - who's going to be next to have their non-democratic government overthrown?
4,000 US Marines inbound & 800 Royals on standby.
 
#5
As remarked earlier:
The UN resolution allows for the protection of civilians.

Anyone who has taken up arms is, by definition, no longer a civilian (they are 'belligerants'), and is not accorded the protection of a civilian under the Geneva Convention whilst they are bearing arms (though they are not to be treated as Prisoners of War).

The attacks on Iraq might have stretched the limit of legitimacy, but this action in Libya is clearly beyond what was agreed by the UN, and has no legitimacy whatsoever. We should step back now.
 

Magda

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#6
I wasn't entirely sure involvement was a good thing to start with and the longer this continues, the more unsure I am. Whilst I would like to see the Libyans overthrow Gaddafi, I wonder more and more what the repercussions of UN/NATO involvement will be. I am still not convinced that Gaddafi's replacement will be any better than he was. We have no way as yet of telling what the long-term effects of this uprising will be.

Also, are we going to start policing the rest of the Arab world in this way? The Syrians and Yemeni are both in the midst of attempting rebellion and are being shot at by government forces - are we going to stride in there too, guns blazing in their defence? We cannot police the entire world with No Fly Zones. On the other hand, can we just allow Gaddafi and others like him to continually repress the basic rights of the citizens of their countries using whatever force is necessary?

This is a minefield and Pandora's box all rolled into one. Precedents may yet be set which must be adhered to.
 
#8
:sign3:I'm with you Magda............the whole Arab world is a nest of vipers.........stick you hand in and you're gonna get bit ! Cameron and Sarkozy have had their fifteen minutes of fame......now it's time for the famous American war cry............'Lets get the hell outa here'
 
#9
Given recent history I thought the time for the west geting involved with the internal affairs in Arab countries had past.But here we are again and surprise,surprise things are not so simple as they first appeared.We are involved and have probably overstepped the mandate from the UN and have no idea at what point we can stand back and say job accomplished.We as a nation may be appalled at the goings on in other countries but surely history has taught us that little or no good ever come from poking our noses in.
 

Magda

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#10
:sign3:I'm with you Magda............the whole Arab world is a nest of vipers.........stick you hand in and you're gonna get bit ! Cameron and Sarkozy have had their fifteen minutes of fame......now it's time for the famous American war cry............'Lets get the hell outa here'
If you're with me, why are you using the "I'm with Stupid" smiley?! :lol: :-D :confused1:

Is this one of those "Who's with me?! *tumbleweed*" moments?

I'd also like to add, on a more serious note, that not so long ago the rebels were in the streets chanting that they wanted to finish the job themselves... this could yet backfire on the West/Nato/the UN.
 
#11
If you're with me, why are you using the "I'm with Stupid" smiley?! :lol: :-D :confused1:

Is this one of those "Who's with me?! *tumbleweed*" moments?

I'd also like to add, on a more serious note, that not so long ago the rebels were in the streets chanting that they wanted to finish the job themselves... this could yet backfire on the West/Nato/the UN.
Jack humour...............you'll get used to it !
 
#13
So sad that we see politicians of all persuassions and nationalities, dipping their toes into already muddied waters and selectively picking on countries they hope to profit from their involvement or non involvement in conflicts. All comes down to oil or mineral wealth. No such action against Mugabee.
 
#16
It's all about regime change, Finks, always has been.

Aye yer richt there.

This dispels and doubt that buffoons are running our country. Hague has said that Britain might accept Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi going into exile so that the ongoing crisis in the oil-rich country could be solved.
 
#17
Aye yer richt there.

This dispels and doubt that buffoons are running our country. Hague has said that Britain might accept Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi going into exile so that the ongoing crisis in the oil-rich country could be solved.
I think what Hague was really meaning was the crisis could be solved if we can replace Ghadaffi (what is the correct spelling for his name) with a pro-western leader who can also be a despot but a pro-western despot.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#18
It will be interesting to learn what the CIA have been doing undercover, in support of the UN resolution, protecting civilians who don't support the rebels.

Doubtless the defected Libyan foreign minister will tell us....
 
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Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#19
There are nightmarish implications if other countries decide that the UN resolution to protect civilians applies to all civilians.

Those civilians under threat from Gaddafi appear to be under the "protection" of the West, but to date no-one seems to be protecting civilians that do not support the rebels and may even be threatened by them because of a different political, religious, geographic or ethical background.

Step forward Russia or China?
 
#20
I actually in principle think that intervention in Libya was the right move. At the start of the 'up-rising' you had a population that was demanding democracy and a Lunatic dictator that was willing to turn the military on them for doing so. I think the sad truth is that action wasn't taken soon enough and the momentum which might have led to a popular uprising in Tripoli was quelled by Gaddafi.

I'm not sure if it counts as being ironic that the reason there was such a delay was obviously related to the bloody mess which was made with Iraq. An intervention that was laid on poor grounds and mis-information, but given huge backing. Yet in Libya we have a call for democracy (something America claims to truly believe in, promote and staunchly defend) and yet all we get is hesitation.

It does seem to me that the rebels do need to realise that it isn't going to be quick and glorious victory anymore and that they need to start organising and training for a civil war.

I also agree that now we have resolution 1973 we need to stick to it. Preventing civilian casualties does not interpret into backing the rebels.

Just my two pence
 
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