Let battle commence!

redassnotdragass

Lantern Swinger
I wouldn't disagree too strongly, but I do think that a big part of it is that only lip service is payed to developing skills in the available labour force. The system could do with a bloody good shake up though, it's over complicated and costs a fortune to run.


I totally agree that skills and training are vital, and a key area that Govt should be actively involve in. I was all for T Bliar's Education, Education, Education. Shame he didn't follow it through.
 

redassnotdragass

Lantern Swinger
Quote:
Time for a change back to Tories to cut taxes and get us back on an even keel.

I think you're being a little idealistic here.


You're right that is too simplistic. It is going to take us years to pay back the debt that Brown has acquired. So much for his much vaunted "Golden Rule" of tax revenues matching spending over the economic cycle, fricking liar.
 

PINCH

War Hero
Oil_Slick said:
UK PLC are broke…

"… In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.
In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.
…"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5651825/Benefit-payouts-will-exceed-income-tax-revenue.html

The devil as ever is in the detail!

They are talking about INCOME TAX. which if I recall is only one of the 25 streams of tax revenue.

Scarry but simplezzzz
 

redassnotdragass

Lantern Swinger
PINCH said:
Oil_Slick said:
UK PLC are broke…

"… In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.
In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.
…"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5651825/Benefit-payouts-will-exceed-income-tax-revenue.html

The devil as ever is in the detail!

They are talking about INCOME TAX. which if I recall is only one of the 25 streams of tax revenue.

Scarry but simplezzzz

Maybe Pinch, but it's still saying that we pay out more in benefits to people not working than the people in work pay in income tax. No matter how you try to dress it up with big words and spin, it doesn't take a genius to work out the situation is a mess.
 

Karma

War Hero
redassnotdragass said:
You're right that is too simplistic. It is going to take us years to pay back the debt that Brown has acquired. So much for his much vaunted "Golden Rule" of tax revenues matching spending over the economic cycle, fricking liar.

I said idealistic, not simplistic. Idealogically there is little to distinguish labour and tories at the moment. They're both centre left and advocate quite a socially interventionist approach. For all the rhetoric Cameron hasn't come up with anything credible about improvement, all vague promises.

But to the point, this review doesn't appear all that credible. No discussion of foreign policy which is a bit of a concern given that the MoD exists to execute HMGs intentions in our relationships with other sovereign states.
 

redassnotdragass

Lantern Swinger
Karma said:
redassnotdragass said:
You're right that is too simplistic. It is going to take us years to pay back the debt that Brown has acquired. So much for his much vaunted "Golden Rule" of tax revenues matching spending over the economic cycle, fricking liar.

I said idealistic, not simplistic. Idealogically there is little to distinguish labour and tories at the moment. They're both centre left and advocate quite a socially interventionist approach. For all the rhetoric Cameron hasn't come up with anything credible about improvement, all vague promises.

But to the point, this review doesn't appear all that credible. No discussion of foreign policy which is a bit of a concern given that the MoD exists to execute HMGs intentions in our relationships with other sovereign states.

My bad, brain interpreting the wrong way - fully agree with the idealogical statement though I think the Tories do want to cut taxes there's just no scope for a few years and they don't want to raise expectations.

The "Green Paper" is just sleight of hand, and lets face it, it's going in the bin after the next election whoever wins.

Edited to correct sausage fingered moment.
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
The pendulous swing between socialism and it's vicarious power through trades unions and capitalism and it's wonderful free market idealism is laid bare over forty odd yars to see. I don't advocate trades unions wielding absolute power as they did pre-Thatcher, but her role in crippling what rights workers had is now paying dividends, in a negative sense. When she bgran the wrongness of selling off the state's assets, instead of reviewing and restructuring, out with the bathwater went any notion of people who go out and work being entitled to a stake in their employment. It was all placed in the hands of businessmen - many of them overseas investors - and their fickleness in business. The clappy-hands glee of 'the people' owning a stake in things such as British Gas, British Telecom and anything else once believed to be owned by the taxpayer anyway. And so it comes to pass that we are using British taxpayers cash now to bale out banks, transport, energy and anything else royally fecked by incompetence and greed. Nothing to fall back upon - thousands cast onto state benefits and bankruptcy and those fine fellows who set this in motion best remembered for starting wars and retaking distant islands.

Meanwhile, Rome smoulders gently in the distance.

levers
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
redassnotdragass said:
PINCH said:
Oil_Slick said:
UK PLC are broke…

"… In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.
In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.
…"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5651825/Benefit-payouts-will-exceed-income-tax-revenue.html

The devil as ever is in the detail!

They are talking about INCOME TAX. which if I recall is only one of the 25 streams of tax revenue.

Scarry but simplezzzz

Maybe Pinch, but it's still saying that we pay out more in benefits to people not working than the people in work pay in income tax. No matter how you try to dress it up with big words and spin, it doesn't take a genius to work out the situation is a mess.




And there we have it in a nutshell.
 
redassnotdragass said:
...... I was all for T Bliar's Education, Education, Education. Shame he didn't follow it through.

One of the first examples of his shameless spin and mendacity (we can only guess as to his complicity in the organised larceny reported in the Torygraph)!

We need a return to useful education for the individual undergoing that education - perhaps a more challenging academic environment for the more academically gifted and a more skills-related environment for those who find academia too much. Let's call them Grammar and Secondary Modern Schools - no - that worked, so we couldn't possibly repeat it!

My kids have both been to University, came away with decent 2:1 degrees and are now wondering whether they might have been better off had they launched straight into the workplace after their secondary education. I think that Uni was probably right for them, as they are much more independantly driven than I was at their age - I joined up at 18, have had a pretty good career and am now retired, but I often wondered if I could have made a go of a University education. A largely academic question - if you'll pardon the pun - as I didn't stay at school for A levels.

Some interesting points of view along the way in this thread, but nothing as profound as a comment by Rory Bremner in a repeat of an old "Whose Line Is It, Anyway?" tonight, where his closing comment was on the eagerly awaited departure from Tory sleaze with the incoming Blair government. Oh, for a crystal ball!
 

redassnotdragass

Lantern Swinger
Oil_Slick said:
redassnotdragass said:
PINCH said:
Oil_Slick said:
UK PLC are broke…

"… In 2008/09, gross income tax receipts were £152.5 billion. In the same year, social security benefits cost the Exchequer £150.1 billion.
In 2009/10, the Treasury is expecting to take in £140.5 billion in gross income tax receipts. Social security benefits are projected to be £164.7 billion.
…"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5651825/Benefit-payouts-will-exceed-income-tax-revenue.html

The devil as ever is in the detail!

They are talking about INCOME TAX. which if I recall is only one of the 25 streams of tax revenue.

Scarry but simplezzzz

Maybe Pinch, but it's still saying that we pay out more in benefits to people not working than the people in work pay in income tax. No matter how you try to dress it up with big words and spin, it doesn't take a genius to work out the situation is a mess.




And there we have it in a nutshell.
phuq me! Slick and myself agree on something - will someone please pass me the noose: I just can't deal with it! :lol:
 
Chaps it has to be said gash can DfID. It is offensive that we are giving away cash across the globe when we need it here. Charity starts and all that .....The UK’s Gross Public Expenditure on Development (GPEX) amounted to £6 billion in 2007/08. The DFID aid programme accounted for £5.2 billion (86 per cent) of this expenditure.

The UK Government is on track to meet the UN target of spending 0.7% of Gross National Income (GNI) on official development assistance (ODA) by 2015, and is likely to achieve this in 2013.

Total UK official development assistance will rise to almost £9.1 billion by 2010/11. These additional resources will be used to increase UK bilateral aid to Africa to at least £3 billion a year by 2010, spend at least £1.5 billion on HIV/AIDS related work over the next three years, and ensure that more children in the world’s poorest countries are able to go to primary school.

You have to ask how much of this do we see returned through our own economy?
 
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