Leading Hands and Corporals Mess @ Culdrose

Would you be happy having this forced upon you?


  • Total voters
    187

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
Believe me Drippy I have no need to look up any "rules" of interpretation, the qustion is ambiguous, the fact that you won't accept that is in itself interesting and probably says a great deal about your personality.

As for discussing the Charitable status of a mess fund......... why? I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be, my degree is in Mathematics, my post grad Diploma is in Applied Mathematics, I have a Certificate of Education and am currently engaged in researching how young adults learn, no Law. Statistics however, you could say I know a little about how to form a hypothesis, write a survey by appropriately phrasing questions and gauging response and then analysing the results.

Whilst I agree with your sentimet that the majority don't necessarily rule we do still live in a democracy and the Law should never in principle fall in favour of he who is more vocal in his argument but he who is right. Not sure if anyone explained this to you at the careers office though; the Armed Forces represent democracy but is an autocracy, though subject to the law of the land(at least the bits it's not excluded from). My point that you should consider whether the mess is of benefit in general, regardless of how you feel about paying a fiver seems to have passed you by, have you actually considered the opinion of other L/H's or was this thread your attempt to do that? You have formed an opinion that the organisers of this mess have done so for their own personal gain on the basis that they are incompetent and unable to be professionally advanced by any other means, yet you present no evidence to support this. Have you ever stopped to think that just maybe they have attempted to do this because they feel it is of benefit to your fellow L/H's, rightly or wrongly. Have you engaged them in their plans? I don't know the answer to any of these questions but would be interested to know the answers before I voted in any "poll" I know I have wasted my time here, "your mind is closed" as Paul Erdos would have said, but still I felt the need to to ask about the wider issues surrounding this mess, it appears I no longer "don't give a f*ck"!

As for character assassination, you are doing a good job yourself, you come across as self serving and attempting to use the law for no more purpose than to prove your point. The attitude represents everything that is wrong in our society and is not, in my opinion, conducive to a successful career in the Armed Forces.
 

chinamatelot

Lantern Swinger
**** me, what a whinge! All this for a fiver a month!

Good to see Jack hasn't lost his ability to moan about his lot!

Go back to being an AB and spend your 5 quid "savings" a month on a couple of beers down your local.

Or,

Accept you're a killick and get on with it and accept the rough with the smooth.
 
having been in culdrose since 99 as a leading hand (yes i know im steaming bit) and remember the tavern bar before it was closed down for the new PAYD facility.never used it then, have never been in it since it has changed.
why oh why should i have to pay 5 pounds a month so that other people can watch sky sports as im led to believe that this is a major drip from the so called "hardcore" two or three that use it.
am also informed that most people that do drink onboard use the PAYD bar as it is far more comfortable and they can have a drink with the able's that they work with all day.you do not get this segregation anywhere in civie street.you dont walk in to a pub and find one corner for management one for middle management and one for the working class.
you also dont have to pay 5 pounds for the privilage.
it just feels like im being mugged
 
Having watched this discussion develop I have reached the conclusion that a Killicks Bar or Club should not exists. The social separation in rates and ranks since long before my enlistment in 1961 has alway Juniors to L/S in one mess, Chuffs and Puffs now also WO in their messes and the bunhouse.

No separate Killicks Clubs/Messes/Dining facilities etc.

It worked very well for many years, now it appears that the Airy Fairies wish to ape Crabs and Brown Jobs just as pusser did with WO's and that was not a move for the better.

Nutty
 

stumpy

War Hero
I would have thought that it woulds have been good for the ABs to have had their killicks drinking with them, especially as the PAYD bar is a good one.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
I think it has been driven from above, to give LHs more corporate responsibility as part of the management chain. The Army and RAF treat their Corporals with the respect they deserve, so I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing in the RN. Bearing in mind that the Messes are only currently in use in shore establishments, and would not work on board a warship.

And £5 per month for the chance to go somewhere quiet, away from the chav rabble, is a small price to pay. Especially when they kick off ["Why didn't you stop them?" "Erm, I was in the LHs & Cpls Mess at the time..."]

:lol:
 

stumpy

War Hero
sgtpepperband said:
I think it has been driven from above, to give LHs more corporate responsibility as part of the management chain. The Army and RAF treat their Corporals with the respect they deserve, so I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing in the RN. Bearing in mind that the Messes are only currently in use in shore establishments, and would not work on board a warship.

And £5 per month for the chance to go somewhere quiet, away from the chav rabble, is a small price to pay. Especially when they kick off ["Why didn't you stop them?" "Erm, I was in the LHs & Cpls Mess at the time..."]

:lol:
Good point!
 

ronalder

Lantern Swinger
stumpy said:
sgtpepperband said:
I think it has been driven from above, to give LHs more corporate responsibility as part of the management chain. The Army and RAF treat their Corporals with the respect they deserve, so I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing in the RN. Bearing in mind that the Messes are only currently in use in shore establishments, and would not work on board a warship.

And £5 per month for the chance to go somewhere quiet, away from the chav rabble, is a small price to pay. Especially when they kick off ["Why didn't you stop them?" "Erm, I was in the LHs & Cpls Mess at the time..."]

:lol:
Good point!
I left the mob many years ago. When did shore billets institute Killicks messes?
 

Karma

War Hero
ronalder said:
I left the mob many years ago. When did shore billets institute Killicks messes?
It sounds as if Culdrose is the only place that's done it, I haven't heard of it elsewhere.

There's been nothing forthcoming about the reasoning behind it but I can only assume that Culdrose now has a crab population who've argued a case for it.

Can't say I'm convinced of the value, but it does give some parity with the crabs who've had a Corporals bar system for years.
 

copenhagencup

Lantern Swinger
Nope, no crab case argued, In fact a Cpl aka Northern Dave put his point so vociferously last year via email that he had to see the overseeing oscifer for a smacked wrist. Good lad that Dave.

If the Navy want to enhance the group identity of Killicks at Culdrose they would be better off not contracting all the jobs away to the civvy industry that they want, and just leaving the shite for servicemen. The RN must wake up that, all work and no play makes Jack submit his notice.
 

chieftiff

War Hero
Moderator
copenhagencup said:
If the Navy want to enhance the group identity of Killicks at Culdrose they would be better off not contracting all the jobs away to the civvy industry that they want, and just leaving the shite for servicemen. The RN must wake up that, all work and no play makes Jack submit his notice.
Mate, we both know that this applies equally across the ranks and rates of all 3 services, the introduction of civilian work practices (LEAN a civilian manufacturing philosophy!!) Public/ private partnerships, civilianising second line jobs and even in some cases servicemen working effectively as contracted manpower for a civilian company(BAe) have all served to destroy the service ethos. An ethos that will never be well understood by those who have not been a part of it, an ethos as you say which is based as much on play as work and the development of a team spirit and can do attitude................... or is that me just being an old cynical dynosaur again!
 

limey_sailor

Midshipman
you dont have to pay... it's all up to YOUR mess pres.. speak to himbefore you start dripping!!! i'm in the colligwood comit... we dont pay, however, we have been helped out by our hierachy.. maybe they dont have the same support... know all the facts before you start shouting guys!!!
 
just thinking out loud, why didnt they do a trial run and charge everyone thats using the mess a pound to get in (as five pounds seems to me a pound a day monday to friday then weekend) and then they would have been able to work out that the majority of LH's dont use it.
if its being run as the SR,s mess is being run will there be a LSTD drafted in to work full time?? will there still be the same die hards volunteering to work behind the bar, or will it be run by the very cheap aramack people??
WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY??
 

clanky

War Hero
blanket_stacker said:
just thinking out loud, why didnt they do a trial run and charge everyone thats using the mess a pound to get in (as five pounds seems to me a pound a day monday to friday then weekend) and then they would have been able to work out that the majority of LH's dont use it.
if its being run as the SR,s mess is being run will there be a LSTD drafted in to work full time?? will there still be the same die hards volunteering to work behind the bar, or will it be run by the very cheap aramack people??
WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY??
An interesting point BS. The concept of the killicks mess was raised after 2SL canvassed serving killicks about ways of raising their status and profile within the service. Strangely enough, nobody dripped back then!
Unfortunately, the reality is that at best, the killicks mess is a partitioned corner of the Naafi bar, where its customers can sit and enjoy Naafi service at Naafi prices. In the killicks messes I have seen, mess fees are used to provide sky TV/Magazines etc. In establishments where you have largeish numbers of victualled killicks, such as Collingwood, they do seem to be a success. Without knowing the demographics of the Killick population at Culdrose, it would seem to be the case that the Killicks Bar at Culdrose is not being used.
Much as I deplore the way that Drippy has framed his arguments, I for one can see his point. It is one thing to pay mess fees for the priveledges of joining a SRs mess, another to pay a fiver a month for Sky sport and a copy of FHM.
BTW Drippy, if you think that the sole function of the SRs mess is to provide free coffee and cheap beer, then you are seriosly missing the point.
 

clanky

War Hero
blanket_stacker said:
just thinking out loud, why didnt they do a trial run and charge everyone thats using the mess a pound to get in (as five pounds seems to me a pound a day monday to friday then weekend) and then they would have been able to work out that the majority of LH's dont use it.
if its being run as the SR,s mess is being run will there be a LSTD drafted in to work full time?? will there still be the same die hards volunteering to work behind the bar, or will it be run by the very cheap aramack people??
WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY??
An interesting point BS. The concept of the killicks mess was raised after 2SL canvassed serving killicks about ways of raising their status and profile within the service. Strangely enough, nobody dripped back then!
Unfortunately, the reality is that at best, the killicks mess is a partitioned corner of the Naafi bar, where its customers can sit and enjoy Naafi service at Naafi prices. In the killicks messes I have seen, mess fees are used to provide sky TV/Magazines etc. In establishments where you have largeish numbers of victualled killicks, such as Collingwood, they do seem to be a success. Without knowing the demographics of the Killick population at Culdrose, it would seem to be the case that the Killicks Bar at Culdrose is not being used.
Much as I deplore the way that Drippy has framed his arguments, I for one can see his point. It is one thing to pay mess fees for the priveledges of joining a SRs mess, another to pay a fiver a month for Sky sport and a copy of FHM.
BTW Drippy, if you think that the sole function of the SRs mess is to provide free coffee and cheap beer, then you are seriosly missing the point.
 
i thought (and i will suck back if im wrong) that to give killick's more status and profile they were going to give them more responsiblity, i.e. writing able's reports and part one instructing at raleigh are two that spring readily to mind.
as for the sky and fhm, why should i pay for that.
i pay for it at home
i belive (and once again will suck back if wrong)that with the new SLAM accomodation that you can have your own sky installed(along with your own phone line and broadband) and if all else fails go to the PAYD facility where you can watch it for free.then get yourself down the spar shop, buy your own copy of FHM saving yourself about £1.20.
 

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