Well you're the one who started the whole stupid 'I've got more Joint Service experience than you' argument.Drippy said:The matelot,
Fair enough, you beat me in the 'who's had longest in the tri-service environment'. Not by a lot but never the less Well done. I'm interested in hearing your point of view but you've still to make any real argument that invalidates my point on HR or indeed any other points. You clearly don't like me playing the HR card but the wording of the article to which I refer is clear. It's easy to make comments about my maturity or your opinion as to my future promotion prospects but you have to qualify them with reasons, something you've yet to do. You say that if I approach this from a different angle you'd be more sympathetic but no matter how it's worded the arguments are the same.
I can't speak for people at Chicksands as I'm not based there. Why they're whinging about paying mess fees at Sultan where it's around 1/3 of what they are at Chicksands is beyond me. You can't please everyone, can you?copenhagencup said:The matelot,
Having served on a tri service unit longer than you yawn, and recently overheard a member of the Chicksands unit visiting Sultan whinging incessantly about mess fees for staying a couple of nights (always Bop night, subsidised everything) I find your arguments limited and well within the box thinking, you institutionalised ******* really piss me off, lacking constructive discontent to change the world for the better, That's why I`m off to a more open deeper thinking world. I suggest you stay in because with your attitude you will struggle outside the Services.
Advice if you are unhappy about your mess fees complain, campaign to change the status quo, seek other peoples opinion; Yes like Drippy, do something positive you half empty saddo.
P.S Don`t whinge at paying at Sultan I would hate to think that I subsidise you.
A little off track but for every 1 JR messdeck lawyer thereâ€™s at least one in either the PO's or CPO's mess. Completely irrelevant to this discussion in my opinion.the_matelot said:You obviously didn't take in what I said in my previous comments.Drippy said:The Matelot,
Yet again, your personal insult lacks any real founded arguments. You assume that everyone is like you and wants to drink and use a mess. How do you know that I'm not an ex alcoholic and can't go into a bar without turning into Barney from the Simpsons. If this was the case, no matter what is done with the mess it will be impracticle for me to use it. Please come back when you have a real grounded argument to make.
I'm a watchkeeper. I use the mess for meals and that's about it. I don't get the opportunity to go into the mess as often as I'd like due to watch cycles however I still pay exactly the same mess fees as the guys who are day workers and are in there every evening. Is it fair that I pay exactly the same amount but don't get the opportunity to use it? Probably not but I don't whinge about it, unlike you.
I think the last time I had an alcoholic drink in the mess was the Xmas do. My mess fees include an entertainment subs. I've only been able to go to one mess do in the last 12 months and even then I had to pay extra!
Why don't you go away and formulate an argument without bleating on about your human rights?
Don't you just love JR messdeck lawyers? :roll:
Was it fair that for years, the RN discriminated against singlies who like myself were in long term relationships but chose not to get married by having different levels of charges imposed on them? No, it wasn't. Why should a married person pay less of a food charge than someone who commutes and has bought a house with his or her girlfriend/boyfriend? Are you going to try and tell me that this would stand up in civvy street?
It's just one of those things that happens when you're serving in the forces.
It's called life in a blue suit. If you don't like it, stick your notice in.
If everyone started whining on about how 'this isn't fair, that isn't fair' etc etc, there wouldn't be an RN left!
Old navy? I don't think so-I joined up in 1997.
What you need is a spell in a Tri-service environment to really open your eyes and see just how good we have it in the RN.
How about those who haven't answered the question because it implies an expected response?Drippy said:The question is 'are you happy having this forced upon you', yes or no. Whilst I accept that masses of complicated data can be twisted to show almost anything I think this one is pretty unambiguous. The majority are not happy. What you have done is simply quote something you have been told in the past. Try thinking for your self, it works wonders.
DittoDrippy said:Chat Noir,
I absolutely respect your point of view. If the killicks mess was for you all good and well. But it should be a choice. I personally feel that I get all the recognition I need by being better and knowing more professionally in the work place than my subordinates and I'm placing my trust in that to get me advanced. I rank ability to perform my job way above belonging to a mess to give me my recognition. Those who are relying on being in the club to get them ahead must, in my view, be lacking in the workplace. No disrespect to yourself of course.
I have absolutely no doubt you believe that! The question then: What should I be happy with, the formation of a mess for L/H, the charging of fees for that mess, or membership being compulsory. I would suggest a little ambiguity there!Drippy said:Chieftiff,
There is no ambiguity to the question 'are you HAPPY with this being FORCED upon you'. I can see no other interpretation to this question therefore it is unambiguous.
I trust, as the outstanding leading hand you claim to be, that you can get off you preverbial and find the information yourself.Drippy said:Karma,
I'd be very interested in exploring your suggestion as to how employment and equal opportunity legislation could support the argument against mandated payment of mess fees. However, as has been the case from all three of you who disagree with my approach you fail to reference the relevant parts of the said legislation in exactly the same way you have consistently failed to reference any tangible counter argument to the HR standpoint.
The section I'm on about is the existence of a contract, and change of contract. The contract exists, but not in a single document, changes to the various documents do imply changes to the contract.KLNA-Cessna-Jockey said:Mention is made above by Karma stating "... none of them rely on the HRA but will be covered by employment and equal opportunity legislation."
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