Leadership or management?

Discussion in 'Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting' started by nellysflipflop, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. After reading a few comments on here it would be interesting to see if most people agree or not that most positions within the Navy rely on more management skill than leadership, or is it circustance dependant?
     
  2. There is more to leadership than management.
     
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  3. does good management facilitate good leadership or are they two seperate entities?
     
  4. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    The difference is simple. You manage things; you lead people.

     
  5. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    As heard on a Forecastle many years ago, said by an old and bold Killick: "The Navy gives me sailors. I turn them into seamen."

    It is said that management is not just about how a Manager deals with his Team, but how the Team deals with the Manager. More often than not, I have intentionally kept my Boss in the dark when it was appropriate, otherwise his intention to help, get involved or manipulate the situation will just make matters worse. Obviously this will not apply in every working environment, but there is not shame in telling the Boss to back off now and again. He may be thankful of it one day, if you are protecting his interests... :thumbleft:
     
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  6. I used
    to keep my last boss in the dark as he did not need to know what was happening
    in the day to day running, he would have only put his six pennith worth in and
    made life harder, so I left him to management box ticking and he was happy when
    I told him he could tick and report anther box complete, when I resigned and he
    had to get close to what I did he freaked, the main reason I kept him in the
    dark, the truth can be scary, for some managers? :nike:
     
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  7. 'ere Oppo whats up??? ... your watch broken??? Its Friday ... its 5 past 5 ... and it's ... not normal for you to be posting now and not off home on make and mend! You got a rush job on or summin or just getting some overtime in for Chrimbo??? :biggrin:
     
  8. I would say more leadership than management.
     
  9. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    And you base that assumption on your years of experience within the forces????
    I would say during day to day running it is more management. Leadership tends to come into play more during stressful times such as OST or when the shit hits the fan for real. I've only ever been to action stations for real once, but I've seen plenty of fires. On all of these occasions I have witnessed genuine leadership.
     

  10. Beat me to it! Who is this opinionated pleb?
     
  11. When I as a serving member were managed I kept myself pretty steady and obtained goals I would never have otherwise attained.
    On the dark side I was often "lead" astray, as when doing foot patrols in NI I was lead safely.
    So what the man says, two different horses, and a place for both.
     
  12. Ageing_Gracefully

    Ageing_Gracefully War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Now that sounds like a good dit worth a new thread - do tell of your derring-do in NI.
     
  13. Did a few patrols out there in Derry or Londonderry if that's your bending, and Belfast as a medic. Moscow camp and it's famous hammy eggy would make a dit on its own. Was only in Belfast two months though and then went to Ebrington.
    I even did a patrol or two with you Khaki types.
    I learnt Jockenese in Ebrington.
     
  14. A book came out this year on the subject of Royal Navy Leadership, NFF. Jury's out on whether it is any good but you could check it out for yourself.
     
  15. I served with a certain L/S H...... in Aden back in the day.
    He seemed that laid back and generally clueless that at times it was hard to ever believe he could pass the fleet board.
    One lecture I attended with him on self safety in a hostile climate given by the booties, I swear he fell asleep.
    Came the day we came under intense small arms fire down the Alex, it was like some ****** switched him on.
    I would have followed him to purgatory after that. I wouldn't have followed him to the Naafi beforehand.
     
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  16. Maybe he was 'Admiralty Made'
     
  17. As it's so close to Christmas, old editions of 'The Office' David Brent leadership style springs to mind. Try watching a re-run or two :)
     
  18. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    No, because that **** is about as funny as cancer.
     
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  19. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    If you come across a re-run of 'Twelve O'Clock High' give it a go. The Industrial Society used to use it as a worked example in teaching Professor John Adair's ideas on 'Action-centred Leadership' (balancing the needs of the Task, the Team, and the Individual). JA was an NS officer in the Scots Guards and the Arab Legion and later a lecturer at Sandhurst.

    Alternatively,

    HOW TO BE THE BOSS BABOON:
    1. Display the trappings, postures and gestures of dominance

    2. If challenged, threaten your subordinates aggressively

    3. Use your superior information to outwit them

    4. If that fails, do not shrink from forcibly overpowering them

    5. Stamp out their silly squabbles

    6. Buy off your immediate subordinates with status symbols

    7. Do not let anybody else persecute the weak

    8. Direct group choice of social activities

    9. Occasionally jolly the bottom ones along

    10. Be seen to defend the Empire

    Liberally paraphrased from the 'Ten Commandments of Dominance' (Desmond Morris, 'The Human Zoo')

    Measure the leaders you know/ have had the ill-fortune to experience against that.
     
  20. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Adair's 'Action-Centred Leadership' principles are the basis for the syllabus at the RN's Leadership Academy (ex-School of Leadership and Management) at HMS Collingwood.

    While I have no beef with ACL, that place gave me absolutely nothing of benefit about leadership and management. Apart from a couple of NVQs... :oops:
     
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