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Junior Training Establishments

harryaitch said:
Greenie said:
Yep , I was a posh St Vincent junior. Did a trip to Ganges with the St. Vincent swimming team. Preferred St Vincent -- the mast was a lot smaller!!

I understand that St.Vincent was a mixed adult-Junior training establishment. Were the adult trainees forced to go over the mast or was it reserved as character training for the Juniors?

Regarding St.Vincent having a less fearsome reputation to Ganges, I thought that was because having adults training there as well made the sort of treatment sometimes meted out by a few (power crazed) NCOs less likely/more unacceptable. I also understand this was the reason that inmates were not caned as they were at Ganges. It was a pity then that Ganges was not mixed like St.Vincent - especially for the "deserters" who could not cope with the regime :cry: in the days before the Donaldson Report when they could not leave after a few months training (was it 6 months?)

I don't know why, but I just feel very depressed after writing these lines!
 
I joined as a JRO aged sixteen and a quarter, went straight to Mercury instead of Ganges (my reason for waiting until that age). Our course at Mercury was a mixed Junior and Adult entry.
For the first, I believe, 3 weeks, we were not allowed ashore, one weekend we were taken around the Victory, another weekend we were taken down to Pompey dockyard and onto one of the Frigates (it might have been a Destroyer, its a long time ago) for a look around, that made us very popular with the duty watch, and for the third weekend we were all, Juniors and Adult new entrants, taken to Vincent and sent up the mast, we had to go out over the Devils Elbow on both the up and down trips. No one refused, one brave soul asked the Instuctor what would happen if we fell, the Instructor pointed to the safety net and explained that that would save us. It looked like one inch diameter cable to me and I had my doubts as to any safety factors, we all made it and I don't suppose we were any worse for the experience.
I assume that the caning was for the benefit of the Ganges people with strange tastes. 8O 8O
 
janner said:
I joined as a JRO aged sixteen and a quarter, went straight to Mercury instead of Ganges (my reason for waiting until that age). Our course at Mercury was a mixed Junior and Adult entry.
For the first, I believe, 3 weeks, we were not allowed ashore, one weekend we were taken around the Victory, another weekend we were taken down to Pompey dockyard and onto one of the Frigates (it might have been a Destroyer, its a long time ago) for a look around, that made us very popular with the duty watch, and for the third weekend we were all, Juniors and Adult new entrants, taken to Vincent and sent up the mast, we had to go out over the Devils Elbow on both the up and down trips. No one refused, one brave soul asked the Instuctor what would happen if we fell, the Instructor pointed to the safety net and explained that that would save us. It looked like one inch diameter cable to me and I had my doubts as to any safety factors, we all made it and I don't suppose we were any worse for the experience.
I assume that the caning was for the benefit of the Ganges people with strange tastes. 8O 8O

Very interesting Janner. Clearly you made the right decision to join at 16. What a difference a year makes! As for the safety net: I have got the impression that if you fell on to/through it, you ended up as chips and were whisked off straight to the galley :wink:

As for strange tastes, well I'd agree that something was definately amiss, especially having to have the fly buttons undone of your ducks, as you were held down! What was that about? :oops: :roll: :cry: Perhaps to stop me trying to go on the run again?
 
Nozzy.
I was at St Vincent in June 1956 and the only older guys I saw were the junior instructors------------they had a stripe and an anchor and a crown above it . Don't know how they got to that rate either,none of our class got held back or retained.

They didn't really affect us as we had our own Po's /CPO's as class instructors--they were drawn from any branch specialisation.One of ours was an RP and the other was an L mech.

Class leaders took turns week about and you were designated as Marker aswell in turn[marker was the guy who had to fall in first so you mustered on him at parade times.]

The mast in St Vincent --I never saw it manned we all had to go 'over' it once a week. It wasn't a race just a 'complete it' evolution.
 
Greenie said:
Nozzy.
I was at St Vincent in June 1956 and the only older guys I saw were the junior instructors------------they had a stripe and an anchor and a crown above it . Don't know how they got to that rate either,none of our class got held back or retained.

They didn't really affect us as we had our own Po's /CPO's as class instructors--they were drawn from any branch specialisation.One of ours was an RP and the other was an L mech.

Class leaders took turns week about and you were designated as Marker aswell in turn[marker was the guy who had to fall in first so you mustered on him at parade times.]

The mast in St Vincent --I never saw it manned we all had to go 'over' it once a week. It wasn't a race just a 'complete it' evolution.

How high was it? Also how high up did you have to do. At Ganges you has to go up to the half moon. Only the bravest (or most suicidal) actually went the whole hog and shinned up to the button, just for a laugh.
 
harryaitch said:
exped to wicken fen.Three boats nine boys one bootneck,off for a weekend to clear the reed beds on wicken fen.Great trip going up in one of ganges cutters,three men in a boat,cox and two crew.at least I think it was called a cutter,it had one sail and oars.Being a wafu a boats a boat.

It was nice to escape the ganges regime and fun was had by all,including the bootie telling his tall tales around a campfire.The trip back was all rowing and no sailing due to lack of a fair wind.Anyone else do this exped?

Arry

I doubt if it was a cutter, 36ft, long weight a good ton or two, normally had twelve to pull(row is for civvies) the thing, one boy/man to each oar. Which were so big you could only handle one. Two people would never move it very far, one had to steer so three per boat no chance. Possibly a 27ft whaler.

Nutty
 
Just joined today ex-POGI and now back to being a "Nozzer". Great site, found it by accident. Read many posts and memories came flooding back. I saw earlier in this thread that there JMEM's in the short covered way in '62. I think that is wrong as I was in Drake 38 in November 62 and both that mess and Drake 39 were Seamen, Cooks and S&S. Looks like I'll enjoy visiting, so BZ to all. :roll:
 
Buffer said:
Just joined today ex-POGI and now back to being a "Nozzer". Great site, found it by accident. Read many posts and memories came flooding back. I saw earlier in this thread that there JMEM's in the short covered way in '62. I think that is wrong as I was in Drake 38 in November 62 and both that mess and Drake 39 were Seamen, Cooks and S&S. Looks like I'll enjoy visiting, so BZ to all. :roll:

Welcome on board Buffer. Nice to have another ex-Ganges shipmate here, though we are being accused to trying to take over Rum Ration (there are so many of us). I'm the ex-nozzer (JRO) with an appauling memory. Everyone else can remember the most intricate details about which mess they were in when, whereas I can't even remember when or where I last went on holiday!

We have our own special forum, just to natter about G at:
http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=650.html
 
Buffer said:
Just joined today ex-POGI and now back to being a "Nozzer". Great site, found it by accident. Read many posts and memories came flooding back. I saw earlier in this thread that there JMEM's in the short covered way in '62. I think that is wrong as I was in Drake 38 in November 62 and both that mess and Drake 39 were Seamen, Cooks and S&S. Looks like I'll enjoy visiting, so BZ to all. :roll:

S&S (included Chefs) were also in G23 in LCW April 62 - March 63, we shared with JNAMs too.

You must have also been caught in the 62 blizzard ?
 
NozzyNozzer said:
janner said:
I joined as a JRO aged sixteen and a quarter, went straight to Mercury instead of Ganges (my reason for waiting until that age). Our course at Mercury was a mixed Junior and Adult entry.
For the first, I believe, 3 weeks, we were not allowed ashore, one weekend we were taken around the Victory, another weekend we were taken down to Pompey dockyard and onto one of the Frigates (it might have been a Destroyer, its a long time ago) for a look around, that made us very popular with the duty watch, and for the third weekend we were all, Juniors and Adult new entrants, taken to Vincent and sent up the mast, we had to go out over the Devils Elbow on both the up and down trips. No one refused, one brave soul asked the Instuctor what would happen if we fell, the Instructor pointed to the safety net and explained that that would save us. It looked like one inch diameter cable to me and I had my doubts as to any safety factors, we all made it and I don't suppose we were any worse for the experience.
I assume that the caning was for the benefit of the Ganges people with strange tastes. 8O 8O

Very interesting Janner. Clearly you made the right decision to join at 16. What a difference a year makes! As for the safety net: I have got the impression that if you fell on to/through it, you ended up as chips and were whisked off straight to the galley :wink:

As for strange tastes, well I'd agree that something was definately amiss, especially having to have the fly buttons undone of your ducks, as you were held down! What was that about? :oops: :roll: :cry: Perhaps to stop me trying to go on the run again?

So did you go on the run again?

If not it worked by either making not want to repeat the procedure or that you did not want to bring yourself to further attention with your peers or the staff.

Something in the region of 110,000 boys passed through G****s. How many of them went on the run or received cuts. Over the 60 years of its existance I doubt if it was even 1%. In my year I was one of the few that came close to cuts and to my knowledge no person received the punishment. I do remember a warrant being read and think the lad wnt to DQ's or equivilent. You made the decision and even at 15 you knew the result if you were brought back. Oh sorry you were only a child and were not responsible for your own actions. Then I suppose that also applied to Boy Seaman Cornwall VC who was unaware that if he stayed near the gun where the rest of the crew had been killed it may happen to him.

Nutty
 
Buffer said:
Just joined today ex-POGI and now back to being a "Nozzer". Great site, found it by accident. Read many posts and memories came flooding back. I saw earlier in this thread that there JMEM's in the short covered way in '62. I think that is wrong as I was in Drake 38 in November 62 and both that mess and Drake 39 were Seamen, Cooks and S&S. Looks like I'll enjoy visiting, so BZ to all. :roll:

God this thread is getting polluted, Jossmen, Regs, Tiffies and now a GI. Send for Greenpeace PDQ.

Nutty, A/PO RP2 Submarines
 
Nutty said:
NozzyNozzer said:
As for strange tastes, well I'd agree that something was definately amiss, especially having to have the fly buttons undone of your ducks, as you were held down! What was that about? :oops: :roll: :cry: Perhaps to stop me trying to go on the run again?

So did you go on the run again?

If not it worked by either making not want to repeat the procedure or that you did not want to bring yourself to further attention with your peers or the staff.

Something in the region of 110,000 boys passed through G****s. How many of them went on the run or received cuts. Over the 60 years of its existance I doubt if it was even 1%. In my year I was one of the few that came close to cuts and to my knowledge no person received the punishment. I do remember a warrant being read and think the lad wnt to DQ's or equivilent. You made the decision and even at 15 you knew the result if you were brought back. Oh sorry you were only a child and were not responsible for your own actions. Then I suppose that also applied to Boy Seaman Cornwall VC who was unaware that if he stayed near the gun where the rest of the crew had been killed it may happen to him.

Nutty

Well Nutty you have a good point there!

No I didn't run away again, not after THAT experience. So objectivly it has the desired effect: it deterred me! Yes I knew if I ran away that this was the punishment that would be awarded, however at the time of absconding my mental state rendered this irrelevant. I was definately still a child and couldn't cope - I was one of the weaklings! I must admit I didn't realise cuts would be such a severe punishment - I though it would be more like a school caning, but I was just naive. My problem with caning for boys running away is that we should have been discharged SNLR, not beaten for being inadequate. As it happened it turned out OK later & I enjoyed it - I enjoyed the branch training (especially TPs & de/en-cryption) so keeping me there was a good thing - with hindsight. :)

I remember quite a few lads were caned, though no one else got it for running away!

Boy Cornwell was brave and when he trained on board HMS Impregnable it was undoubtably tougher than Ganges, but he was mentally tougher than me. That's why he's such a good role model. It is also why people like me should have been kicked out, to be honest. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
In 1960 each division had allocated laundry days for things like sheets and pillowcases, don't forget that 2/- was deducted compulsory from your meagre wages ( mine 7/6d) per week. You were marched to the laundry in sports kit, clutching your dhoby bag and your instructor filled the huge washing machines under the watchfull eye of the civvy operator. Then it was spun and hung in the drying racks. A hot, wet, messy afternoon. Normal dhobeying like knicks and socks and some 8's were done in the mess dhobey room and hung in the mess cloak room to dry. A lot of dhobeying was done in the mess on a Sunday and hung outside to dry in the grassy area between messes, weather permitting.
 
jossman said:
In 1960 each division had allocated laundry days for things like sheets and pillowcases, don't forget that 2/- was deducted compulsory from your meagre wages ( mine 7/6d) per week. You were marched to the laundry in sports kit, clutching your dhoby bag and your instructor filled the huge washing machines under the watchfull eye of the civvy operator. Then it was spun and hung in the drying racks. A hot, wet, messy afternoon. Normal dhobeying like knicks and socks and some 8's were done in the mess dhobey room and hung in the mess cloak room to dry. A lot of dhobeying was done in the mess on a Sunday and hung outside to dry in the grassy area between messes, weather permitting.

Would youngsters today really believe we got those wages (though it seemed pretty good at the time I recall :oops: ). I couldn't even have lunch at work on ten times that sum a day, in London, now! Mind you I remember buying an Olympus OM1 SLR camera when it first came out for what seemed like a fortune at the time! :roll:
 
The money we got was more than that 7/6d they kept money back so that you could buy slops/get haircuts when you had to.

It went to 12/6d after so many weeks.

The way I got around it was to send money home--and my mother sent it back to me!! Allotments were allowed in those days!

I was getting 12/6d a week doing a paper round ---before school in the mornings before I joined up!!

When I reached the Ordinary rating I got my back pay !!!Was in Canada so it came in handy .

1956 ----------Juniors pay was £1.11s.6d minimum to £3. 3s max per week.

OD 1956 rates £4.11.s to £5 .1s. 6d per week.
 

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