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Judges rule on speeding fines

slim

War Hero
I for one hope that this succeeds. The siting of many of these cameras shows that they are there purely to raise money. Let us get back to a situation where they have to prove who was driving the vehicle. Perhaps then we will get the traffic police out on the roads and catching real offenders.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465052&in_page_id=1770

Also see:

Child road deaths rise by 20pc

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/29/nroad129.xml
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Yep… Speed doesn't kill, bad driving kills. The rest of the world seems to understand that concept…
 
Oil_Slick said:
Yep… Speed doesn't kill, bad driving kills. The rest of the world seems to understand that concept…

Unfortunetly O-S to prove bad driving(or spelling edited) costs lots of money. Even in the days of lots of Traf-Pol many of them were more interested nicking a speeder cos it was a cut and dried offence than a car tailgating on the motorway at 70 mph cos you have to prove that in court. Speed camers do not cost cash but in fact show a profit a no brainer for the bean counters who now run UK PLC

I am for more Traffic Officers but they need to concentrate on bad drivig habits not the easy offences.

Nutty
 
I suppose keeping to the speed limit is not an option?

Seriously, as the camera partnerships are self funding, the more cars that are caught speeding, the more money for cameras. They don't take money from the police resources or reduce the number of police since most of their staff are civvies.

If every driver kept to the speed limit for 2 months, the schemes would be unaffordable. However, as every driver knows, they are the best & safest driver around, and it is all the others that are the problem ^~
 

slim

War Hero
Nutty said:
Oil_Slick said:
Yep… Speed doesn't kill, bad driving kills. The rest of the world seems to understand that concept…

Unfortunetly O-S to prove bad driving(or spelling edited) costs lots of money. Even in the days of lots of Traf-Pol many of them were more interested nicking a speeder cos it was a cut and dried offence than a car tailgating on the motorway at 70 mph cos you have to prove that in court. Speed camers do not cost cash but in fact show a profit a no brainer for the bean counters who now run UK PLC

I am for more Traffic Officers but they need to concentrate on bad drivig habits not the easy offences.

Nutty

With you 100% on that one Nutty. Bad driving causes far more accidents than someone doing say 80 on the motorway. Could start with nicking the tailgaters, worst offenders lorry drivers, so close to the rear of the lorry in front.
 

ukdaytona

War Hero
On M4 last night, driving home in the space of 5 minutes, traffic car got a Chav and a Whitevan man - he must of thought it was his birthday
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
TattooDog said:
I suppose keeping to the speed limit is not an option?

Seriously, as the camera partnerships are self funding, the more cars that are caught speeding, the more money for cameras. They don't take money from the police resources or reduce the number of police since most of their staff are civvies.

If every driver kept to the speed limit for 2 months, the schemes would be unaffordable. However, as every driver knows, they are the best & safest driver around, and it is all the others that are the problem ^~

Your allowed a 10% speedo error, but the cameras in some areas are set at 31mph…
 
Oil_Slick said:
Your allowed a 10% speedo error, but the cameras in some areas are set at 31mph…

Even better! That gives every driver an excuse for driving 10mph below the limit. If everyone did that, then the whole system would go to rats - roads and cameras.
 

ukdaytona

War Hero
Try comparing the speed on your speedo to that on a GPS unit. My GPS often reports me driving 5mph slower than my speedo does.
 

gollyman

Badgeman
I live on a road in a family estate where boy racers tear past every day. I ring the police regularly with number plates and descriptions and bugger all gets done. I child will die soon, and it could easily be resolved with police presence.

To be a complete hypocrite, I have 6 points on my licence from motorway offences (weekend warrior).

I think speed cameras are great, it's like murder. If you don't like the consequences, don't do the crime. After my 6th point on my licence I have now calmed down. I drive up the line at 70mph, it's much less stressful, I don't get angry, tailgate or have to emergency brake.

This is a non argument. The only argument is what should be done with the money. In my opinion it should pay for traffic police.
 

x4nd

Lantern Swinger
ukdaytona said:
Try comparing the speed on your speedo to that on a GPS unit. My GPS often reports me driving 5mph slower than my speedo does.

I think (not based on hard fact) that generally your car is travelling at a lower speed than that indicated by the speedometer. The thing to bear in mind with a GPS receiver is that it makes its calculations of speed using its own internal clock. The accuracy of that clock determines the accuracies of its calculations. Given the relative cheapness of these receivers, how accurate are these clocks?

Speed doesn’t kill, but inappropriate speed does.
 
ukdaytona My clock is similar; over-reads by 9.8%. My previous Vauxhall shed read to a similar order. My Rover, Truck, Utility on the other hand, under-reads by about 0.5%, depending on how new the tyres are.

I did a Speed Choice re-education Workshop last Tuesday (don't ask!) and they were adamant that speed traps weren't to make money. Reading from my £60 booklet now;
Total Cost of Injury Collisions for Avon and Somerset in 2006: £321M.
The camera revenue isn't recorded but I think he said it was about £4M. There are 110 cameras in the Region.
 
Oil_Slick said:
TattooDog said:
I suppose keeping to the speed limit is not an option?

Seriously, as the camera partnerships are self funding, the more cars that are caught speeding, the more money for cameras. They don't take money from the police resources or reduce the number of police since most of their staff are civvies.

If every driver kept to the speed limit for 2 months, the schemes would be unaffordable. However, as every driver knows, they are the best & safest driver around, and it is all the others that are the problem ^~

Your allowed a 10% speedo error, but the cameras in some areas are set at 31mph…

Don't want to worry you O-S but ACPO GUIDLINES state the speed should be 10% +2 mph before you issue a ticket.

They are only guidlines and no Police Force or in fact individual Police Officer is bound by them and they have no legal standing. So if they want to set a Camera to 31 mph they can. If you are flashed at 31mph you have no defence along the 10% lines.

Nutty

Nutty
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
Nutty said:
Oil_Slick said:
TattooDog said:
Don't want to worry you O-S but ACPO GUIDLINES state the speed should be 10% +2 mph before you issue a ticket.

They are only guidlines and no Police Force or in fact individual Police Officer is bound by them and they have no legal standing. So if they want to set a Camera to 31 mph they can. If you are flashed at 31mph you have no defence along the 10% lines.

Nutty

Nutty

Last time I got stopped I was doing 134mph…

… couldn't really argue with that one as the Coppers had chased me… :eye:
 

Ships_Cat

War Hero
ukdaytona said:
Try comparing the speed on your speedo to that on a GPS unit. My GPS often reports me driving 5mph slower than my speedo does.

This is true of most cars, they tend to over-read, ie your speedo shows 100mph, true speed is 93mph. The +/-10% accuracy is down to the way the speedo is sensed and displayed, you have measurement errors, friction and backlash in old cars with wormgear driven instruments, A-D errors and quantisation levels in digital speedos with hall effect sensors etc. and parallax errors just from reading the needle on the markings. Most road test mags use racelogic or V-box gear to get proper timings and speeds, by measuring speed directly (lights pointed at ground etc), but I have read plenty recently where factory test gear used GPS sensors with laptops to generate the same or even higher levels of accuracy. Of course they are paying for the higher spec GPS signal and using lab calibrated clocks, but there are versions available for a few hundred quid.

I think (not based on hard fact) that generally your car is travelling at a lower speed than that indicated by the speedometer. The thing to bear in mind with a GPS receiver is that it makes its calculations of speed using its own internal clock. The accuracy of that clock determines the accuracies of its calculations. Given the relative cheapness of these receivers, how accurate are these clocks?

Even the most mickey mouse GPS clock is about 1000 times more accurate than it needs to be to measure road speed in cars to tenths of a mph, but as ever its dependent on a decent 4 sat lock for max accuracy. It will be more accurate above low speed (10 mph) but in general it will be more accurate than the car speedo.

Speed doesn’t kill, but inappropriate speed does.

Traffic accident stats show a worrying trend in this respect, the majority (67% last year IIRC) of KSI (killed/seriously injured) in the US were at intersections in collisons occuring BELOW the posted speed limits. Side on collisons while turning is poor judgment, inattentive driving, failing to heed a yellow traffic light etc. but not really speed. The US has more than 10 times the rate of KSIs that the UK does but as the various reports show, despite an increase in safety systems in cars, anti skid, ABS, side airbags, better tyres, road deaths are increasing even when scaled against population, and especially in urban areas. Bull (roo) bars on SUVs were one of the biggest causes of child deaths, despite the collisions being at 15-24mph, hopefully they are all going to be removed by the MOT test for most cars (SUVs), the USA will not be following suit so expect to see their stats continue to rise despite an ever higher number of speeding tickets being issued.
Single car accidents where some dopey sod was driving too fast for road, conditions or lack of skills, continue to see drops in KSIs as people wear their seatbelts more often, cars are stronger than ever, and traffic engineers design roads and motorways so theres less hard things to bounce off.
My own feeling is if you do 80mph on the M40 on a friday afternoon, you'll be the slowest thing on that road. Our motorways are long overdue for an increase in limits, even most traffic police agree.
If you do 50 past a school with 30 signs and cameras, you pretty much have it coming. Either you'll get a ticket and hate the filth/govt/local school, or you'll mow down a six year old and live with it for the rest of your life. The first and last few mins of each journey are statistically the most likely time for an accident, and of course are usually when you are around people. If you know that and switch on to the danger, you should avoid a few problems.
 
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