JSF - F35-B

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by england_expects, Oct 12, 2007.

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  1. So officially, the RNs getting F35s in 2012. How optimistic are you about that? How late do you think they will be arriving? and will they start training newbies to fly them or pilots who have done tours in the JFH first?
  2. I am amongst the few that are quite confident that the JSF will be on time due to the fact it is being ordered along side HMS Prince Of Wales/HMS Queen Elizabeth so this is an added pressure for it to be on time.

    And I would imagine that their will be a combination of both pilots new and old trained to fly them.
  3. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    I think your confidence may be misplaced:

    "Britain has also voiced its dismay about possible delivery delays. The House of Commons Defence Committee cautioned in a Dec. 21 report that “there is a risk that the Royal Navy will have a new carrier but no new aircraft to operate from it†if JSF deliveries slip further. Initially planned for 2010, deliveries to Britain are now planned to begin in 2011, allowing an in-service date of 2014 at the earliest." Defence-Aerospace.com

    Adam Ingram's answer to the question "whether the new in service date for JSF has any effect on plan B..........We will not be setting an in service date for JCA
  4. This is defence precurement you're talking about. Nothing ever turns up on time!
  5. Dave B (or preferably C) will not enter service (ie be deployable in squadron strength) aboard ship until 2017 at the earliest - thats in the public domain. The first ship will have to operate with GR9's for a couple of years at least. Course, that assumes there will be sufficient airframes with adequate fatigue life left by then..........
  6. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    What makes anyone think the carriers will be on time anyway? And how long after their 'in-service date' will it be before thay can actually operate aircraft? And the world will have changed .. think BACK ten years ... let alone what shape the world will be in later in the carriers' service.
  7. From Janes
    Alreay less and late.

  8. Wrong plane and already late. The F-35B has yet to fly. It's price tag is already estimated to be an eye watering $115 million a throw and set to climb. It has less range and weapons load than the A or and especially the genuine naval C version. And now Crab Air who campaigned for the B version in the first place are rumoured to gazing longingly at the C version to fulfill their FOAS requirement when the Tornados get pensioned off.

    SO what will we see?

    The Navy ends up with the short legged and bloody expensive VSTOL F-35B version it didn't really want 6 years after the USN gets it's first F-35C, and the RAF probably ends up with a batch of the much cheaper and more capable naval F-35C that we can't use off the carriers because we designed the bloody thing to fly off VSTOL!

    Another 'triumph' of MOD procurement.
  9. Oil_slick,

    I totally agree. One other option should have been to simply buy Super Hornets off the yanks. A battle proven design that, on paper, might not be as good as JSF but will be good enough for what we need. As the Yanks buy JSFs we could have brought second hand Super Hornets cheaply, and then if we wanted gone along the JSF route when it is proven.

    It might not be stealthy, but so what? That limits your payload to the inside carried ones and really is only useful on the first day of battle when you could simply use Tomahawk instead for most of those targets.
  10. Before your very eyes, enter another MoD tradition, stage left of the pantomime. Change the CVF specification after Main Gate by introducing cats and traps. No delays and additional costs there then! Salami slice the DD/FF and MCM force a bit more to cover it?

  11. Yes, the F/A-18E Super Hornet was the 2nd place in the down select but only because the F-35 was 'stealthy' and was promised to be very cheap, and not too far into the future, (and it's instead proven to be very expensive and increasingly late).

    F/A-18E has been in service with the USN for some years now, is a damn fine plane that's performed superbly in Iraq and Afghanistan with performance not far off a Typhoon.

    And the price? The last batch the USN bought was at $63 million a plane… makes you want to cry.

    And as for all this 'stealth' obssession. The F-35 is only front aspect stealth when it's clean, hang stuff under the wings and it's just another single engined fighter with all the problems a single engine brings… There's a very good reason we like twin engines in fighter/bombers and naval aircraft.

    And our dear leaders seem to forget, we need planes to go bomb the crap out of 3rd world sand people, not über fighters to fight the forces of the Emperor Palpatine.
  12. What makes me laugh is, that you all think we are actually going to get these new carriers :sign5:
    Before anyone starts, I was in when we were promised CVA1, TSR2. and the F111.............................get my drift?

  13. Wouldn't it be great to get something that's just what we need, at the right price and on time! Sorry, drifted off into that fantasy world again! :donut:
  14. Yes, but remember that most of the build will happen next door to Gordon Brown's constituency... therefore unless he wants to hand his seat to the SNP the build will go ahead.

    Whether it will have enough aircraft is another matter... because they are not being made in Scotland!

  15. At the current estimates, informed opinion is that all the FAA will be able to field will be two 9 plane F-35 squadrons…

    A 920ft war canoe with 18 aircraft does not impress.
  16. F/A18 is a load of toss.It doesnt have the legs for more than 30 mins playtime in Iraq<the pilots are very un-flexible.Give me a pair of GR4'S /GR7/9'S anyday.
  17. ––––––––––––––

    And if we ever go up against anyone with double-digit SAMS or SU-27/Mig-29 class fighters your Harriers just became 500kt aerial targets. Remind me what radar and BVR missiles the GR7/9's carry again?
  18. [quote]

    [align=justify]The UK Ministry of Defence is continuing research to refine a hybrid shipboard rolling vertical landing (SRVL) technique, potentially to be employed as the primary recovery mode for Lockheed Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighters operating from the Royal Navy's two Future Aircraft Carriers (CVF). A programme of MoD-sponsored research work, including technical advice from the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl), has already concluded that SRVL would offer a significant increase to the F-35B's payload "bring back", without any fundamental platform or safety issues. An SRVL involves a short take-off and vertical landing aircraft performing a "running landing" on to the carrier flightdeck, using air speed to provide wingborne lift to complement engine thrust.[/align]


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