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If not EDS who else, Fujitsu, GD, BAe - all have some spectacular failures in their CV. There really aren't that many big companies who can take on work of this magnitude.

Interstingly they now all work in a variety of consortia, under different guises. So for DII/F, you'll have Atlas (led by EDS, with GD and Fujitsu). For another system we use here in the '2' space, its a consortia of roughly the same, this time led by Fujitsu. Swings and roundabouts.

The reason they coulnd't harmonise first was that the legacy platforms realistically couldn't be reprogrammed - far to expensive, doing it in JPA was a better option.

DII/C is rolled out! Are you mistaking DII/C for DII/F? Admitedly not all areas will have either but most of the planned rollouts for DII/C are complete. Even some here!
If the prime contractor is known to be unable to deliver the programme then phase the programme or descope it to improve the chances of success, and not take the big bang approach. Simple really

What you haven't admitted is that JPA is being paid for out of anticipated manpower savings in unit admin staff - the same people who are trying to sort things out at the moment (if they haven't already been cut)

'far too expensive' - there you go. What we are saying is that we would rather screw up people's pay than spend the money to sort the system out properly

As to IT I guess we will be DII/F, which is why the 'benefits' of the new system mean my e-mail to MOD MB got very unreliable and we can't share documents

I note that you haven't responded to my 'greatest single factor' comment

As a member of the RN hierarchy don't you feel somewhat embarrassed about the imminent arrival of a system that has manifestly failed the RAF and will probably founder when 35000 matelots join it? I know I do
Sorry - have to admit I skimmed your post as I was busy sacking some individuals.

Who said the prime couldn't deliver? JPA has been descoped, MoD wanted the cake and icing!

Whilst I won't do the money thing here, far too inappropriate, the manpower savings in no way will pay for JPA. Its costing £XXX Millions, removing 900-1000 service personnel does not add up to that figure! And those posts aren't being lost in reality, the people will go to fill in other gaps.

Choosing a cost effective way does not mean the RN would rather screw up peoples pay. be realistic. There simply isn't the money to do the same thing twice and does it make sense? I know how I want my tax spent.

I didn't read the 'single biggest factor' bit, again I think you're being too simplistic and not realistic.

What makes you think I am a member of the 'hierarchy'? trust me I'm far from that. We might use different mess decks, but I'm far from being CinCFleet, or even the CWO for that matter.
Well, unless you are an AB, you are a part of the hierarchy

As to being simplistic and unrealistic, maybe I am a bit old-fashioned, but if we truly believe that personnel are the biggest single factor then we are badly letting them down

Anyway, must toddle off and spend some of my pay - while I still can :wink:
Wavedodger & SailbadTheSinner, can I throw in my tuppenceworth.
I also work for one of the IT companies mentioned in previous posts (NOT EDS !)
Don't know enough about the technical details of JPA to know how much customisation went on.
Do know enough to know that large projects are major risk
Government has poor record in implementing large projects
Try implementing multiple large projects (e.g. DII & JPA) concurrently multiplies the risk.
No new system works 100% from day 1, but from these/pprune forums etc, implementation of JPA seems to have been a major clusterfcuk.
We're talking about peoples money here - we need to get this as right as we can before rolling out a system. What is an acceptable level ???

You can have any new computer system either cheap, on time or working. However, you can only chose 2 of these options.

I think the MOD went for cheap & on time.
There are of course only three things you can ever manage in an IT (or other) project: Time, cost and quality (or functionality). Wouldn't my lecturers be proud, the ability to spout that after nearly twenty years! Why I can't remember my son's birthdays defeats me.

Good point, but I don't think it was cheap - thats too simplistic. I am sure there were lots of other political, financial and operational issues.

I'm actually, in a bizarre way, looking forward to seeing our rollout. I will, of course, have some beer tokens stashed away just in case :wink:
God - this is a tedious thread.

Wake up boys, the coffee's on and JPA is nearly here. There'll be problems, recriminations and angst for a good while to come, but nobody will die and nobody will be seriously injured because of JPA. If anybody is badly disadvantaged by pay cock-ups, it shouldn't be beyond the capability of the RN to make good.
imom1406 said:
Still doesn't help me with getting screwed by EDS as a Tax payer!!

Look on the bright side, if JPA means that you don't get paid one month, then you shouldn't be paying tax to Gordon that month either, so EDS'll be screwing the Revenue too! :)
So far in crabland once the system has been sorted its not too bad. The problem is getting your pay SORTED! If you are in the type of job that will keep you in the same place all the time with no extra allowances it will (hopefully) work OK. The problems that come are whenever we go OOA, on a course etc, then everything is knacked for months. Also, on the IT side of things, make sure that the server that your particular unit/ship whatever has all the right antivirus bits disabled, otherwise you can spend ages when it comes on line trying to access stuff, which the AV software wont allow. We're still coming up against stuff now - not many happy bears this side of the fence. :roll:
dunkers said:
Personally, I find it reassuring at present that if you have a query/problem about pay or other admin issue, you can simply go to the ship's office and sit down with a writer and discuss the issue in person.

I'd hate to be stuck with a computer, trying to work out what I'm meant to do, or what I am able to do... I'd much rather speak to someone who is an expert (as currently happens) even if just for peace of mind.

I wish i could say the same, but the ships office on larger ships is full of inexperience and youth. Not good for the future.
I wish i could say the same, but the ships office on larger ships is full of inexperience and youth. Not good for the future.[/quote]

JPA will make for a far easier life in the future. There will obviously be bedding in problems but however much we bleat about it won't make it better any quicker. You Carrier queens and the like should spare a thought for your colleagues deployed on smaller ships who don't have a permenant sattelite uplink, but as ever, your floating palaces will be dealt with first.

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