wave_dodger said:Have a look a this thread:
I'm amazed by the rhetoric and uninformed comment. Before I get flamed to death, let me impart a few seeds for thought.
How many people have stopped to consider how often with the CURRENT pay system across all three services that pay errors are made? One of the principal reasons behind JPA is that all three services routinely make over payments/under payments or even no payments.
MoD could simply not afford to implement three bespoke IT systems for the services to replace the current systems. Equally a further reason behind JPA is to drive out the inequalities that exist in terms of pay/allowances etc, so one system made sense.
If you have to ask why are MoD finding the implementation of JPA difficult then consider this:
How are we different from Shell, BP, Boots - We offer a 'service' that borders on almost being a welfare system. We manage pay, pensions, career management and other HR services on one system. Civilian companies rarely if ever work in this way - the military is largely unique.
Getting a COTS product to offer the bulk of the services we required would always have been a significant challenge. Harmonising and simplyfing the pay/allowances rules would always be a significant challenge.
The biggest challenge however remains, getting people used to doing a lot of work themselves - get used to it, we are a shrinking Navy. There simply cannot be enough people to do all the work. And if that means we streamline our own administration so be it.
But don't think that 2SL downwards have simply thrown this system in without recognising the difficulties - I cannot for a moment accept that they would be happy if a single serviceman wasn't paid correctly. I think you can be assured when that happens somone will be roasted.
It won't be perfect when it arrives - its getting better, I use it in a Joint Unit and we've seen a big increase in its resilience and useability - but it will get better.
And incidentally, EDS are not the bad boys here - really! They were told to implement what they had by a certain date and they have. That they said that date was barking, well.......
I'm worked with EDS on and off for the past 16 years and whilst they are far from perfect they are no better or worse than any other major IS contractor.
I have been in the RN for over 20 years and can say that other than T&S I have never had a pay error
Since the new JPA-friendly rules came in my T&S claims take over 3 weeks to process
The RAF personnel in my unit have all had JPA problems - and they are still persisting. One took the equivalent of 1 and a half days to process a simple T&S claim
My experience of EDS ranges from 2 operational IT systems (all late, over budget and not meeting the requirement), to conversations with IT contractors (none of whom have a good word to say about them) and a conversation with some USN colleagues whose equivalent of NavyStar is late, and inadequate to the task (guess who the contractor is)
The JPAC helpline is considered useless- the standard reply is contact unit admin staff - what's the point of having a helpline? And those admin staff have been/are about to be taken as a savings measure
I agree that 'rhetoric and uninformed comment' isn't helpful, but blind faith isn't very helpful either. If you see a trainwreck approaching do you press on regardless or avoid it? Still all those ABs without IT access won't mind, they've got the divisional system to sort it out for them - most of which also doesn't have IT access at sea
Someone mentioned the HRMS system. If that system works for the MOD civil staff why wasn't it used for uniformed personnel? Better to pay for two separate systems eh?