joining at 29 yrs old

[Bambie]

I am currently starting the joining process for AET and have a few unanswered questions, Was hoping some of the real people could answer them.

I am 29 yrs old and served 5 years in the ARMY (EOD) followed by my HNC in electronic engineering in civvy land. I am currently working for BAE Systems as an Avionics Systems Integration Engineer (Typhoon), Although it aint as exciting as i was led to believe and find myself extremely bored doing the same job day in day out.

As you can guess i miss the service way of life and hope to use my Avionics experience to its full advantage.

1) How much money will i be on after training? (need to know how much am going to lose by joining).

2) Is there a way for me to fasttrack with my engineering experience i.e. can i get to LH earlier then 3 Yrs?

 

[slim]

Could it be that your HNC gives you enough points to pursue the officer route.
With your experience I would thick that you may find life as an AET less than demanding, in fact possible boring.
No doubt Uncle Ninja, DE and SuperMario will be along soon. listen to them as they always give advice that is reliable. :thumright:

 

[Bambie]

Well my friend, I have an appointment to chat with an officer about that possibility.

Talking to the careers staff although i have my ARMY Class 2 EOD (same as the NAVY course) and HNC it isnt an accredited degree so doesnt look like they will let me.

I have been offered other decent design and development roles though after all the college and spending a few years sat at a desk am missing the tools and real analysis part of being an engineer.

I was led to believe that the AEO role was predominantly man management and organisation and im not interested in that, Too much s**t from both ends, ive seen it all before. At least at the bottom the only way is up ha ha. worth considering though.

 

[slim]

Bambie
After leaving the RN after my 22 years I joined BAe as a Senior Field Engineer in their Naval weapons Division at Bracknell (now closed).
Do Bae still have field engineers?
If so it could be an interesting move for you.
I thoroughly enjoyed the seven years I spent in field engineering until I was made redundant.
Though your HNC doesn't count as a degree, does it count as UCAS points?

 

[Bambie]

I dont think so, they may have but i havent heard of them, i will ask next week.

One of my mates is ex FAA but not seen him 4 a bit, he was a PO and im sure he will love the banter when i mention joining FAA to him (me bein cannon fodder n that).

My HNC is worth 210 ucas points and to enter as AEO they require 140 but still the lower ranks at the office are saying i wont get it.

Hmmm do the maths.....

Whats worse is i work with Meng Avionics students that aint got the engineering skills i have in me foot buddy but the NAVY would let them in no sweat.

They are a liability with the design so what they like with tools HA HA.

 

[slim]

I'm ex FAA ex POAEM(R) so spent 22 years in the aviation world. If you have the UCAS points I would strongly recommend that you go down the officer route. Though you will not get the extra pay for having a degree you will certainly be better paid as an officer than as a rating. conditions of service will also be better, bet then you should know this being ex army.

 

[Waspie]

I'm ex FAA ex POAEM(R) so spent 22 years in the aviation world. If you have the UCAS points I would strongly recommend that you go down the officer route. Though you will not get the extra pay for having a degree you will certainly be better paid as an officer than as a rating. conditions of service will also be better, bet then you should know this being ex army.

Surely taking a degree once in the RN is a possibility is it not?

 

[slim]

I'm ex FAA ex POAEM(R) so spent 22 years in the aviation world. If you have the UCAS points I would strongly recommend that you go down the officer route. Though you will not get the extra pay for having a degree you will certainly be better paid as an officer than as a rating. conditions of service will also be better, bet then you should know this being ex army.

Surely taking a degree once in the RN is a possibility is it not?

Further education to degree level has been possible in the RN for a long time. However on entry an occifer with a degree is paid more (lots more) than an occifer without one.
The question Bambie is thinking about joining as an AET at age 29 and he already has an HNC (Just a kick in the arse below degree level).
I would advise him that he is possibly over qualified to be an AET. His qualifications are higher than tiffs and mechs used to gain on completion of their courses (in the old pre 1985 days).
many tiff POs in radio workshops at Lossie did day release to get their HNCs.
If he can get into the bun room he should be encouraged to go for it :w00t:

 

[TeddyT]

Pay will be better as an officer. (correct me if I'm wrong, but with an HNC you will start BRNC with 2 years seniority, and so will be a SLt...and get the relevant pay) And there is always the opportunity to gain a degree within the RN (the OU is more than accommodating for RN officers as well as the in-service degree).

What is the age limit to start in each branch? Could this be close to becoming an issue?

 

[slim]

Has the direct entry Tiff (or equivalent) been discontinued? We has a few on the Manchester in 1982, six weeks at Raleigh a few weeks training and then instant petty Officers. The ones I remember were OK. :thumright:

 

[Bambie]

Thats what i was after really, but dont think they do that anymore in any of the services.

I wonder if there is a trade sort of test to enable me to jump through the LH and PO courses, and only do the bits required i.e. modules that i havent completed that will be required for hands on aircraft roles.

I have been told that the officer entry is up to your 30th birthday although there is special dispensation for current engineering experience.....if Bae staff cant qualify for this who does?

I have also been looking into the ARMY (REME Avionics), although i have played this game before and would like to try something a little different. And the training from start to finish is 20 Mths followed by about 4/6 yrs to get Sgt.

Its a dilemma....

ARMY.....NAVY.....RAF.....or carry on development and integration (change design.....reconfigure documents......test design.....analysis and report, then change design.....reconfigure documents......test design.....analysis and report, then change design etc).

 

[Guzzler]

It's not just DE Tiffs that have been discontinued slim - they all have.

 

[slim]

It's not just DE Tiffs that have been discontinued slim - they all have.

Yes, shame. I wasn't a tiff but had a great deal of respect for the skills of both Tiffs and Mechs.
For some reason I don't think that the current training is anywhere near as comprehensive as yesterdays, resulting in much more work for the civilian contractor. :toilet:

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

I wonder if there is a trade sort of test to enable me to jump through the LH and PO courses, and only do the bits required i.e. modules that i havent completed that will be required for hands on aircraft roles.


Its a dilemma....

ARMY.....NAVY.....RAF.....or carry on development and integration (change design.....reconfigure documents......test design.....analysis and report, then change design.....reconfigure documents......test design.....analysis and report, then change design etc).

If you can provide evidence of your former income, providing you left the Army by choice, rather than being discharged, some of your Army seniority may be carried over into the RN AFTER completing training. Starting pay for Ratings is £13,013, for Graduate Officers £28,216 regardless of age or expertise.

There is unfortunately no automatic right of advancement through the ranks as you need "in service" experience before you can manage service people, despite the fact you may be externally qualified. The top 5% of ALL AETs may be forwarded for the fast-track scheme, but it's by no means awarded on supposition.

Despite the seemingly extensive experience & apparent knowledge, unfortunately the minimum academic requirements for Officer remain 5 GCSE's (A*-C) and 180 UCAS points at A level standard or equivalent, comprising no less than two non-overlapping contributory qualifications, scoring no less than 45 UCAS points per exam.

The goal posts have moved to encompass other equivalent acceptable contributing qualifications, however the first port of call in an AFCO cannot offer definite advice regarding eligibility as a copy of your certificated qualifications can only be verified by the Admiralty Interview Board.

Candidates offering BTEC Certificates and Diplomas, at level 3 and above, will now be accepted as satisfying the non-overlapping requirement, but the minimum acceptable standards for these qualifications are now as follows:

BTEC Certificate – Distinction, Merit
BTEC Diploma – Merit, Merit, Merit

Other Level 3 qualifications will be dealt with under existing policy on a case by case basis.

Good luck solving your apparent dilemma.

 

[slim]

In the old days when the ONC and HNC were discontinued and the BTEC system established, ONCs were level 3 units and HNCs consisted of Level 4 and 5 units. This was in about 1980/81 when I took my ONCs or BTEC as it became. By the time I took my HNC the name had reverted from BTEC back to HNC, this was in 1992.
Have the levels changed?

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Happy to be corrected, but my understanding was that HNDs are now called Foundation degrees & are accepted by universities as an entry level to study for a degree.

The original poster, with previous experience working on Typhoons, would logically be better off joining the RAF, however their version of AETs require GCSE's at entry level. Likewise regardless of further academic qualifications, GCSE's are still required for RN officer entry.

If an aero-engineering applicant doesn't have the GCSEs, it often explains the RN AET option being taken.

Providing an AET is in the top 5% of ALL AET applicants at the end of phase two training, ie; not just in your intake, then there is a fast-track scheme available.

AET pay is on the lower payband at entry level because GCSE's are not a pre-requisite. The pay increases to around £16, 227 after 26 weeks.

 

[slim]

Ninja
Education and the relevant certificates and diplomas seem to be in an never ending state of flux.
When I did my BTEC (ONC) while in the RN (day release Salisbury college) it counted for university entrance requirement. One of the civvies on my course used it to gain a Bsc at Southampton.
At that time a full BTEC part time over 5 years (HNC) not only counted as the entrance requirements but also exempted the first year of study.
The main difference between the holder of an HNC and an HND was that the HNC was studied for part time, normally two evenings and one day per week, while the HND was two years full time education.
The HNC and HND courses as far as I could tell consisted of virtually identical units.

Is it about time that the RN stopped the requirement for GCSE O levels (which are of course inferior to the old GCEs) and instead accepted the higher ONC and HNC qualifications often held by more mature applicants?
It would seem to me that many applicants who would make excellent engineering occifers are being rejected because they do not have schoolboy gained qualifications.

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Is it about time that the RN stopped the requirement for GCSE O levels (which are of course inferior to the old GCEs) and instead accepted the higher ONC and HNC qualifications often held by more mature applicants?
It would seem to me that many applicants who would make excellent engineering occifers are being rejected because they do not have schoolboy gained qualifications.

The reason given by AIB is simply that they want individuals with a solid educational background, from GCSE's, A Levels and upwards.

If there are gaps, then there are often shortfalls apparently. Doubtless it happens only occasionally, but I've witnessed a graduate fail the literacy element of the Recruiting Test - for ANY trade & similarly have seen many A level qualified individuals on numerous occasions fail either English, Maths or both for Officer entry, which permits a third answers to be incorrect.

The recruiting test was only introduced for officers recently as a coarse filter & it's achieving it's purpose. What many people don't realise is that the Recruiting Test is academically only around about 11+ standard in the non-verbal reasoning, verbal reasoning & mathematics sections - it's just a lot faster.

To be honest, I see where the AIB are coming from & why they have "upped" the A Level UCAS requirement.

 

[i_like_pies]

Hi there all. First time post on RR. Sorry to jump in on your post Bambie.

I'd be interested to see how you get on with this Bambie. I'm in an almost mirror image situation of yourself. I've got (BTEC) HNC and (BTEC) ONC in electronic eng, also BTEC first diploma and City and Guilds 201 in mech eng. Strangely i'm working on Typhoon components like you, although not with BAe, and other avionic bits and bobs. The problem is that the jobs i've been doing are increadibily boring. I wouldn't mind doing something that has just a wee bit more purpose about it.

I'm quite interested whether the Navy would be a good career choice for myself. I'm 33 and have been giving it a hellava lot of thought. I haven't yet got the wife to agree, but if i give her all the facts, at least she can give me her honest opinion.

I'd just be interested to see how this pans out for you. Can you keep posting updates?

Cheers

(Please ignore bad spelling. I didn't spell check nuffink. :thanks:

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Hi welcome to the site,

For those wishing to join as an Officer, providing you have 5 GCSE's A*-C (including maths & English), candidates offering BTEC Certificates and Diplomas, at level 3 and above, will now be accepted as satisfying the non-overlapping requirement, but the minimum acceptable standards for these qualifications are now as follows:

BTEC Certificate – Distinction, Merit
BTEC Diploma – Merit, Merit, Merit

The minimum standard for A levels remains 180 UCAS points, with at least two non-overlapping subjects. Other Level 3 qualifications will be dealt with under existing policy on a case by case basis.

The answer to the query with regard eligibility is take the original certificates to your Officer Careers Liaison Centre for AIB to verify validity.

With regard joining at 33 as an Other Rank (Rating) it depends on many factors but one big consideration is whether you can live on £770 per month (net) to start with.

Good luck.