It's Not The Crime; It's The Cover-up

[Bergen]

I don't post in CA for a reason Jenny

 

[andym]

Blair wont be dragged down,that woman that works for him will take the crap and he'll look to be squeeky clean!

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

I vote that he'd like to take Bliar with him, but it won't happen because CI Sniffer of the Yard will shortly become the Earl Sniffer of Westminster (enabling him to pass on his title to his eldest son) and Baron Levy will be elevated to Viscount Levy.

Scooter Libby looks likely to be the next US Ambassador to Britain... shortly before seeking political asylum.

 

[dt018a9667]

As the slimy grinning lying grinning always does. Oh how I would love to see it and all its cronies up against the wall!!

 

[2badge_mango]

Nice thought Bergen, but the only way he'll go down is the same way the rest of us go down - either as sundodgers, or muff divers - or both!

2BM

 

[Nutty]

Bergen

"It's Not The Crime; It's The Cover-up"

Sorry it is a crime to Pervert the Course of Justice and even if you do it to protect the President of the USA or his mates. As did the Labour Party staff who evaded and bent the laws their own Goverment and PM had brought in.

They are Pollies and honestly believe that the laws brought in to control us plebs do not refer to them. See MP's pensions, Smoking in the Houses of Parliment's bars and resturants etc. Its a world wide problem, Power Corrupts, Total Power Totally Corrupts.

Nutty

 

[padbeat]

Bergen

"It's Not The Crime; It's The Cover-up"

Sorry it is a crime to Pervert the Course of Justice and even if you do it to protect the President of the USA or his mates. As did the Labour Party staff who evaded and bent the laws their own Goverment and PM had brought in.

They are Pollies and honestly believe that the laws brought in to control us plebs do not refer to them. See MP's pensions, Smoking in the Houses of Parliment's bars and resturants etc. Its a world wide problem, Power Corrupts, Total Power Totally Corrupts.

Nutty

I don't think he was disputing that it was a crime, more that what he was covering up might be more important than the fact that he covered something up. I can see some parallels with Watergate, but the prosecutors need to find someone like Dean Achison (?SP) who dropped Nixon right in it. Did Cheney authorise the release of Palmie's name? Did he do it on the instructions of the President? Either of these is at least as serious as using the FBI and the IRS as a tool to attack your political enemies.

My feeling is that GWB is at least as corrupt at Nixon was, but doesn't have the raw political power & brutality to get away with it.

 

[Maxi_77]

Unless things have changed since I last really took an interest in this whle affair the original problem the outing of CIA Val has turned out to be a non crime, and our hero has been banged up for covering up something that did not need coverng up. A bit like Archer who got done for a false alibi when he already had a 'good' alibi he was not that keen on using.

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

They are Pollies and honestly believe that the laws brought in to control us plebs do not refer to them. See MP's pensions, Smoking in the Houses of Parliment's bars and resturants etc. Its a world wide problem, Power Corrupts, Total Power Totally Corrupts.

Nutty

Nutty,

Sorry mate but they CAN do all that as it's a royal palace and legally exempted from the law of the land - except criminal law... and even then... Parliament decides whether legislation will apply within the Palace (which includes the whole Parliamentary Estate) or not. Take health and safety for example: Parliament chooses to broadly abide by the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974. That is not the same as being subject to it! Mast manning in snow without safety harnesses, special boots, rubber gloves and that paraphanalia they used at the V Sign (St.Vincent) would be quite legal on the Estate. Cross Westminster Bridge and it's too dangerous! :wink: :roll: :lol:

AAC.

 

[Bergen]

I don't post in CA for a reason Jenny.

 

[Bergen]

I don't post in CA for a reason Jenny.

 

[Maxi_77]

Unless things have changed since I last really took an interest in this whle affair the original problem the outing of CIA Val has turned out to be a non crime, and our hero has been banged up for covering up something that did not need coverng up. A bit like Archer who got done for a false alibi when he already had a 'good' alibi he was not that keen on using.

It certainly was not a "non-crime". Valerie Plame was a CIA NOC and had set up a private energy consultancy firm [Brewster-Jennings] that provided cover for intelligence operations focused on WMD. She built the cover up pretty well by studying at the College of Europe in Bruges and at the London School of Economics. When her cover was purposely exposed the entire network was compromised. It was the CIA itself who asked for an investigation and the appointment of a federal prosecutor.

The crime was hidden pretty well but they botched the cover-up.

In the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, the USA and Britain went to great lengths not only to falsify intelligence but to rubbish, smear and discredit anyone who presented facts contrary to the Bush / Bliar spin. In the US the Army CoS General Shinseki was publicly humiliated and forced to resign; the US counter-terrorism chief Richard Clarke was forced to resign and so was Paul O'Neill the Secretary of the Treasury. They all had one thing in common, they had publicly questioned the false intelligence that was leading to the invasion. They were just the tip of the iceberg and when Ambassador Wilson said categorically that the Bush intelligence on Niger uranium ore was patently false then the White House targeted Wilson's wife Valerie Plame.

In the coming weeks and months we will see more British soldiers killed in Iraq. When all the spin and the hype is stripped away the bare fact will remain is that they were committed to a war based on nothing more than the lies of politicians. To be the last young man to die for these lies is a tough bullet to chew.

RM

Then clearly more has been released since as I say I really took any interest as at that time it was reported that she was but a head office desk wallah and as such not protected by law from disclosure. Now as what ever she was doing, her cover was blown from the start why does her real positin come out so much later especially as the apparent reason at the start for he exposure was not her own job but the fact her husband had been given a job on her advice to investigate the West African Uranium Ore story.

On the other hand I I understood these things properly I would probably be being paid more than I am now.

 

[Bergen]

I don't post in CA for a reason Jenny.

 

[Maxi_77]

Then clearly more has been released since as I say I really took any interest as at that time it was reported that she was but a head office desk wallah and as such not protected by law from disclosure. Now as what ever she was doing, her cover was blown from the start why does her real positin come out so much later especially as the apparent reason at the start for he exposure was not her own job but the fact her husband had been given a job on her advice to investigate the West African Uranium Ore story.

On the other hand I I understood these things properly I would probably be being paid more than I am now.

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It was always understood that she was a NOC and that her association with the CIA was classified and therefore protected under The Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

The key words in the act are that it was a crime to knowingly divulge her identity. There was little doubt that Libby outed her but the spin was that he did it unknowingly. Watch You Fingers, Clang is the result of his cover-up - not the crime.

The additional spin that was also put on the entire affair was that her husband's trip to Niger was some sort of jolly arranged by her. Why Ambassador Wilson would consider an unpaid, short-notice, trip to Niger as a jolly was never fully explained.

RM[/quote]

Well I can certainly remember several commentators clearly suggesting that her job did not have such protection, but that was the last tme I was in the US which was close to the strat of the affair.

As to diplomats and jollies, for some (based on meeting a few) it is the expenses not the location that matters, not that I am in any way suggesting that Mr Wison is a freeloader, but the diplomatic profession has probably more than it's fair share.

I wuld concur that the cover up is more often the downfall than the act itself, brass neck if more likely to be the better defence.

 

[Bergen]

I don't post in CA for a reason Jenny.

 

[Maxi_77]

As to diplomats and jollies, for some (based on meeting a few) it is the expenses not the location that matters, not that I am in any way suggesting that Mr Wison is a freeloader, but the diplomatic profession has probably more than it's fair share.

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I don't think that a week long trip to Niger would have given much opportunity for Ambassador Wilson to freeload. He had not only previously been Ambassador to Iraq but also had worked Niger diplomatically and had some close contacts there. The choice of him to undertake the mission to Niger made sense.

Where it is really going to get interesting is that now that Libby has been found guilty in the criminal prosecution the civil prosecution that has been on hold can now go ahead.

Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson have named Cheney / Libby / Karl Rove plus 6 un-named co-conspirators in the case.

The Brits were up to their necks in the disinformation and lies that surrounded the claims about the Niger uranium and even Colin Powell found the allegations below his own low standards for inclusion in his now infamous UN speech in February 2003. The simple fact of the matter was that after his return from Niger, Wilson said that "If the administration is prepared to lie about this uranium then it begs the question regarding what else they are lying about".

Very un-diplomatic language; small wonder the neocons had to shut him and his wife up.

RM

I do not doubt you believe what you have written, yet I am quite sure that a short trawl of the US press would dig up some pretty contradictory stuff.

In my occasional trips across the pond (I ran the UK side of a joint development contract for a few years) I have always marvelled at just how black and white political comment tends to be in the US, very few shades of grey can be found, whereas the reality is that things are delicately shaded from black to white.

I alsao find it surprising that action can be taken against 6 unnamed conspirators, arethey unnamed because they don't know the names, because they are saving those ones for more publicity later, or are they also CIA operatives and we are seeing internecine warfare in the CIA as much as Whitehouse politics and smears.

This does all seem much more fun than 'Cash for Honours'.

 

[Jenny_Dabber]

Ah ha political stuff! Moving this to the CA forum guys n dolls, if it gets moved back to the QD, so be it!

 

[Bergen]

Ah ha political stuff! Moving this to the CA forum guys n dolls, if it gets moved back to the QD, so be it!

I doubt it.

 

[Lingyai]

I hate all this whitewash bullshit. Over here in Thailand you can get away with murder if you have money, the chance of getting nicked if you are a politician or his son are slim to nil.
I used to take great pride in telling the Mrs that we have very fair laws in my country and the rule of law applies to everyone in equal measure.
Hmmmm, perhaps I had better baton down my scran hatch.