'It's been even harder than we expected'

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
dt018a9667 said:
I.M.H.O. the problem is that we now have politicians that have come through the education system having studied and taken politics at higher education level and become professional politicians. Having never done or held a real job they have no idea or concept of the real world it is all theory to them and have a great belief in spin and image to determent of all else.
Agreed - but given that the political system is now dominated by such a beast, how are we going to change things? Perhaps that Thai general could give us some pointers!
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
goldtop said:
Nail on the head levers. Problem now lies in the fact that the Govt are so short-termist we need to work hard to pursuade them we are still relevant - the tasks we do now only make the news when we fail, and don't make headlines or good press. ERGO for the fools upstairs, no votes. No votes=no cash = ships alongside, even fewer of them, and the beginning of the end. We all need to make damn sure what we are doing is recognised for what it is - worthwhile.
I agree. We have come a long way in 400 or so years and I feel as though my era of service is a pivotal moment. When I joined, there were god knows how many ships and submarines and 89,000 people to man them. It's a given that technology rendered them obsolete in a short space of time and I can see that some assets we have were burning up cash and were downright wasteful. But the rot set in with Tom King and his Options for Change and has continued apace ever since. I don't think I have had any confidence whatsoever in any Defence Secretary we have had the pleasure of accounting to, and the past sixteen years have been a disgraceful experience in which the only saving grace has been the fact we haven't faced a capable enemy until recently. I see the logic in reducing our defence capability when the Wall came down - no point in maintaining a moderate-sized AF when the bad lads have no guns. But somewhere, somehow, someone forgot about our forthcoming convictions - Balkans, SL, Iraq and Afghanistan.

And it won't stop there. Out there in the distance are wars regarding energy that will be irresistible for the greedy ******* who have started the Iraq and Afghanistan debacle. The horrific thing about it is that it has ******* nothing to do with defence of the realm or just plain patriotic duty to vouchsafe our homeland. It has everything to do with expeditionary regime change for the purpose of securing mineral assets, and somehow I don't recall a Charter in the NATO Constitution that deals with that. So, while all of that is going on on the telly (because that is as close to anything near the gritty reality and obscenity of war) the nation lays in a fat, comfortable, money-obsessed stupour, and assorted flights land incognito, their cargo of shot away squaddies tucked away from the nation's eyes and the support structure set in place to deal with their pitiful ongoing existence eroded by the ******* government who exposed them to it in the first place.

Sometimes, it is not nice to wish war and hardship on this bloated nation of ours. But somewhere near the core of one's soul, you get the feeling it would purge society of chavs, scroungers and idiots, it would make the ambivalent comfort-zoners sit up and take notice and it would expose this shower of shit we have as a government as the incompetent, short-sighted bunch of bastards we always know they are.

Levers
 

iceman

Midshipman
Out there in the distance are wars regarding energy that will be irresistible for the greedy ******* who have started the Iraq and Afghanistan debacle. The horrific thing about it is that it has ******* nothing to do with defence of the realm or just plain patriotic duty to vouchsafe our homeland.
Irag and Afghan wars arent the same, Afghanistan we had an interest in because the bad boys were training there unchecked and with impunity not to mention the drugs etc. Iraqs a completely different issue, you cant compare the 2.

By that principle we'd barely need an army anymore because noone is going to invade us, we're surrounded by allies. The threat isnt from states anymore it's from corrupt intelligence agencies and terrorists etc.

Agree with the rest of what you said though, the country needs a wake up call.
 
D

Deleted 493

Guest
iceman said:
Irag and Afghan wars arent the same, Afghanistan we had an interest in because the bad boys were training there unchecked and with impunity not to mention the drugs etc. Iraqs a completely different issue, you cant compare the 2.
"Drugs etc"? So. with 163 tonnes of heroin exported by Afghanistan in 2003 and 6015 tonnes exported last year, you'd say that the reasons for invading Afghanistan were justified? You'd say the coalition is doing a great job stemming the production of heroin, whilst trapped inside an enclave in various parts of the country?

And 'bad boys'. Have you seen any palpable proof that AQ were wholly behind the terrorist atrocities? I have not seen one document. The videos with OBL? Is it really OBL?

By that principle we'd barely need an army anymore because noone is going to invade us, we're surrounded by allies. The threat isnt from states anymore it's from corrupt intelligence agencies and terrorists etc.

Agree with the rest of what you said though, the country needs a wake up call.
We still need an army. We need a rapidly deployable tri-service organisation. What we get, however, is what BAE Systems give us.

Levers
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Passed-over_Loggie said:
When has a Contractor ever given us anything!
Contractors' generosity is usually evident when you're paying over the odds for something else that you don't want or need! The sad thing is that neither what you're being given nor what you're being sold will meet your actual needs.
 

dt018a9667

War Hero
Levers_Aligned said:
goldtop said:
Nail on the head levers. Problem now lies in the fact that the Govt are so short-termist we need to work hard to pursuade them we are still relevant - the tasks we do now only make the news when we fail, and don't make headlines or good press. ERGO for the fools upstairs, no votes. No votes=no cash = ships alongside, even fewer of them, and the beginning of the end. We all need to make damn sure what we are doing is recognised for what it is - worthwhile.
I agree. We have come a long way in 400 or so years and I feel as though my era of service is a pivotal moment. When I joined, there were god knows how many ships and submarines and 89,000 people to man them. It's a given that technology rendered them obsolete in a short space of time and I can see that some assets we have were burning up cash and were downright wasteful. But the rot set in with Tom King and his Options for Change and has continued apace ever since. I don't think I have had any confidence whatsoever in any Defence Secretary we have had the pleasure of accounting to, and the past sixteen years have been a disgraceful experience in which the only saving grace has been the fact we haven't faced a capable enemy until recently. I see the logic in reducing our defence capability when the Wall came down - no point in maintaining a moderate-sized AF when the bad lads have no guns. But somewhere, somehow, someone forgot about our forthcoming convictions - Balkans, SL, Iraq and Afghanistan.

And it won't stop there. Out there in the distance are wars regarding energy that will be irresistible for the greedy ******* who have started the Iraq and Afghanistan debacle. The horrific thing about it is that it has ******* nothing to do with defence of the realm or just plain patriotic duty to vouchsafe our homeland. It has everything to do with expeditionary regime change for the purpose of securing mineral assets, and somehow I don't recall a Charter in the NATO Constitution that deals with that. So, while all of that is going on on the telly (because that is as close to anything near the gritty reality and obscenity of war) the nation lays in a fat, comfortable, money-obsessed stupour, and assorted flights land incognito, their cargo of shot away squaddies tucked away from the nation's eyes and the support structure set in place to deal with their pitiful ongoing existence eroded by the ******* government who exposed them to it in the first place.

Sometimes, it is not nice to wish war and hardship on this bloated nation of ours. But somewhere near the core of one's soul, you get the feeling it would purge society of chavs, scroungers and idiots, it would make the ambivalent comfort-zoners sit up and take notice and it would expose this shower of shit we have as a government as the incompetent, short-sighted bunch of bastards we always know they are.

Levers
Quite tame that one by your standards Leavers. Mind you I must agree with you on this one.
 

mophead

Lantern Swinger
Levers_Aligned said:
iceman said:
We still need an army. We need a rapidly deployable tri-service organisation. What we get, however, is what BAE Systems give us.

You get what the geniuses at MoD ask for........the fact that they don't know what they want,apart from they want it cheap and fast,is neither here nor there.
 

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