ISIS wanting to come home.

huwshpis

War Hero
The passport isn't really the issue here. The fundamental question is whether she's a British Citizen; having a British passport is just one way of proving that. If she turns up at a British Consulate in Turkey or Iraq and asks for assistance in getting back to the UK, the Consulate will need to be satisfied that she is a British Citizen. In the absence of a passport, the Consulate will need to gather evidence to establish just who this person is. This will involve inquiries being made both in Syria/Turkey/Iraq and back here in the UK. I wouldn't rule out DNA testing to make certain that this young woman is the daughter of British Citizens. This will take time, and if she cannot prove that she is a British Citizen, the UK is under no obligation to help her.

It will be interesting to see what develops.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
@dapperdunn , I take your point about the Rotherham group but in this case nothing about grooming, brainwashing or exploitation.so far, although I expect any lawyers will be quick to trot that out and get her to make a statement to that effect, also a form of grooming perchance?

I still find it suspicious that The Times "found" this girl amongst the thousands of refugees, who just happens to be pregnant and wants to come back to have the child. I wonder if she would have been so keen to return if she wasn't with child?
 

huwshpis

War Hero
The dispute about what lawyers are allowed to do to help their clients has been going on for many years. I remember Sir Robert Mark, when Commissioner of the Met, making comments to the effect that certain solicitors were telling their clients what to say in statements in order to advance a particular line of defence, or setting up alibis for them. This would have been highly unethical then, and still is.

All that a lawyer is supposed to do is get the client or witness to tell their story in their own words and record them as close to verbatim as possible and then put them into a particular format for use in court. It is just about permissible to ask the client/witness if they can say X, but not to suggest that they should say X.

The judges are very careful to try to ensure that these rules are followed, and barristers, in particular, are discouraged from having direct contact with witnesses. This used to be an outright ban, but has had to be relaxed as it has become possible for laymen to instruct barristers directly without the intervention of a solicitor.
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
@dapperdunn , I take your point about the Rotherham group but in this case nothing about grooming, brainwashing or exploitation.so far, although I expect any lawyers will be quick to trot that out and get her to make a statement to that effect, also a form of grooming perchance?

I still find it suspicious that The Times "found" this girl amongst the thousands of refugees, who just happens to be pregnant and wants to come back to have the child. I wonder if she would have been so keen to return if she wasn't with child?
Mate. She won't know that she's been groomed, radicalised, manipulated whatever. To her, that life is what she wanted. That life is normal. It's what she'd been programmed to accept. I don't know if @huwshpis has had any experience with grooming cases, but I do know a little about them because of where I work. We have regular briefings from child protection and from Derbyshire constabulary. The briefings are bad enough. You have no idea of the lengths that these people will go to in order to manipulate young people. Boys as well as girls. It's not just ISIS that do it. The extreme right wing are also very good at it.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Mate. She won't know that she's been groomed, radicalised, manipulated whatever. To her, that life is what she wanted. That life is normal. It's what she'd been programmed to accept. I don't know if @huwshpis has had any experience with grooming cases, but I do know a little about them because of where I work. We have regular briefings from child protection and from Derbyshire constabulary. The briefings are bad enough. You have no idea of the lengths that these people will go to in order to manipulate young people. Boys as well as girls. It's not just ISIS that do it. The extreme right wing are also very good at it.
You.may be right but there is still nothing reported to suggest grooming, with her family criminal history it may be she thought ISIS was the only way out. Only she knows, all we are doing is making assumptions at the end of day.
 

slim

War Hero
Much as I do not wish to see her return to the UK I believe that she will be allowed.
This being the case any children she has should be removed and taken into care to provent them being radicalised.
This also means that we do not have a duty to provide support in the way of housing and child benefits.
She can go back home to mummy and daddy and they can support her
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Much as I do not wish to see her return to the UK I believe that she will be allowed.
You're right.
This being the case any children she has should be removed and taken into care to provent them being radicalised.
What, you mean radicalised like she was?


This also means that we do not have a duty to provide support in the way of housing and child benefits.
So the benefit system is only for........who? I thought it was for everyone regardless of who they are.
She can go back home to mummy and daddy and they can support her
I think you'll find that you, along with every other tax payer will be supporting her until she can support herself. Pretty much like everyone else.
 

slim

War Hero
You're right.

What, you mean radicalised like she was?



So the benefit system is only for........who? I thought it was for everyone regardless of who they are.

I think you'll find that you, along with every other tax payer will be supporting her until she can support herself. Pretty much like everyone else.
Radicalised.
I am afraid that she will be the one doing the radicalising. it has happened in the past. remember Abu Hamza?
Supported completely by the UK taxpayer using the cash to Radicalise others.

Benefit system is being abused by too many people.
Time to put the system right.
Perhaps food stamps and rent paid with just a little cash for a few treats.
The system was suppossed to be a safety net, not a lifetyle choice.
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Radicalised.
I am afraid that she will be the one doing the radicalising. it has happened in the past. remember Abu Hamza?
Supported completely by the UK taxpayer using the cash to Radicalise others.
You really think MI5 will allow her to do that?
Benefit system is being abused by too many people.
Time to put the system right.
Perhaps food stamps and rent paid with just a little cash for a few treats.
The system was suppossed to be a safety net, not a lifetyle choice.
Difficult to get the actual figures as they are government publications, but from what I can gather, 64%of all UK households claim a benefit. (Old news, but likely to have increased)
50.5 % of all UK households claim more in benefits than they pay in tax.
If you want your wish, perhaps you need to emigrate to somewhere where the majority of the population (you included?) don't get benefits.
 

slim

War Hero
You really think MI5 will allow her to do that?
Difficult to get the actual figures as they are government publications, but from what I can gather, 64%of all UK households claim a benefit. (Old news, but likely to have increased)
50.5 % of all UK households claim more in benefits than they pay in tax.
If you want your wish, perhaps you need to emigrate to somewhere where the majority of the population (you included?) don't get benefits.
MI5 allowed Hamza to get away wih it. The Americans taking hhim off our hands was a Godsend, pity the UK government are lacking in guts to take similar action ober other cases.

Lots of households claim a benefit.
My wife and I both have old age pensions, these are classed as a benefit even though I paid ino the system for 50 years.
The benefit system has been the downfall of the UK.
It needs a complete reform though there are too many bleeding hearts out there fighting for the rights of lazy bstrds who can work but will not work.
I have first hand experience of this in my own family, so don't go stating that I know feck all about benefit claiments.
Everyone has a right to live, they do not have a right to exploit the system so that they do not have to work.
Obviously there a many people who cannot work, in that case they need help and should be given it.
 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Lots of households claim a benefit.
I know, I'm sure I just said that.
My wife and I both have old age pensions, these are classed as a benefit even though I paid ino the system for 50 years.
So it's OK to claim benefits if it's you that's claiming them. I can see where you're coming from.
don't go stating that I know feck all about benefit claiments.
I don't remember saying that.
You have an opinion about radicalising young people which you know feck all about that, so perhaps I should have stated an opinion.
Everyone has a right to live,
Not according to you. Read your previous post.
 

slim

War Hero
I know, I'm sure I just said that.

So it's OK to claim benefits if it's you that's claiming them. I can see where you're coming from.

I don't remember saying that.
You have an opinion about radicalising young people which you know feck all about that, so perhaps I should have stated an opinion.
Not according to you. Read your previous post.
I never said that it was not OK to claim a benefit.
Myself and many other people in receipt of the O.A.P. haev been fighting for years to have the pension declared just that a pension paid for over many years and not be caled a benefit.

As for radicalising people I may not kmow much about the process, are you an expert?
Radicalisation is bad and is hapenning in this country far too often. In many cases this radicalisation is taking place under the governments nose and they seem to be ignoring it.
I have lived and workend in Muslim countries and have first hand experience of what Islam thinks of Kaffirs.
How long have you spent working and living in Islamic countries?
 

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