Is this right?

Babcock Marine are a private company, right? Therefore could somebody explain to me why RN members of SFM are currently being employed to work as production mules on these
Surely someone on here can explain to me, that why my next job in the RN could be working for Babcock, working civilian hours with absolute no regard to Second Sea Lords so called PFS.
Having just done 4 years on a T22 surely my shore time could be better spent supporting these ships during FTSP or OPDEF support, I know for a fact that my relief will be a junior PO(ET) who will need quite a bit of support and advice from the lads at SFM. I know I did in my first couple of years as a Section Head.
The whole thing just stinks, why are service personnel working for a private company? Something is rotten in the boardroom. Let alone conflicts of interest rising, should the taxpayer be made aware that forces personnel are being made to work for a profit seeking company?


War Hero
The question is whether the cost of the labour at commercial rates is being deducted from the cost of the new replacement vehicles & whether the RN contribution is speeding the much needed resource "in-theatre" & actually helping save lives.

As recently announced by the Oxford Coroner, a Royal Marine died in an unsuitable vehicle, so if the RN participation prevents that & the company are not profiting, then it actually makes sense.

If it's simply free labour for which the company can charge the full price for the completed items, then heads should roll.
AM, it's the same in Pompey. This comes under the Warship Support Modernisation Initiative. It started in 2002 and you will find that NBC and the company are now partners with a profit sharing scheme in place. I'm not sure of the % split though.
In Pompey when I worked for SFM/FSL under WSMI, the RN bosses made sure we worked RN hours, sport M&Ms were allowed, TOIL was accrued and taken and it worked. We did hear some horror stories about Guzz. You should expect to work RN hours and nothing can override PFS.
Hope this helps.
Now also speaking as a local boy, Devonport and Plymouth as a whole is a deprived area, surely these productions jobs can be taken by local skilled workers, which seeing the amount of people that have been laid off by Devonport Royal Dockyard in its different guises, numbers in the tens of thousands.
This is also compounded that ships in FTSP are not being supported as once they use to be. There is always a shortage of RN manpower, so to use RN manpower to build Army equipment strikes me as fundamentally wrong. I know the lads down at CWEW, building these things, and they are working 0730 - 1530 with no chance even to do sport once a week.
If the company are going to cut costs by using MOD personnel, how about using REME lads/apprentices, who will maintain these in the field anyway,or let me guess already deployed.


Lantern Swinger
I work for SFM at the moment and I have never had any problems getting time off for PFS. The lads working for Babcock building the army vechiles are doing so for 4 weeks at a time(I think, could be 8 weeks), and they are getting two weeks free leave on completion, (I know for a fact), to make up for the loss of time to carry out PFS. I agree in principal that working for a civilian company whilst in the forces is wrong, however a great big carrot like that does sweeten the bitter pill. I have also spoken to some of the lads that have done it and they found it really interesting and enjoyable.


To answer the question, it's not right. It is the consequence of the RN having 2 bosses - private companies and the MoD. Some would argue they're not exactly mutually exclusive. To be honest it's a disgrace, but other than a bit of ranting on this site I doubt anyone important enough cares.


Lantern Swinger
I'm not sure who else is going to provide shore jobs in the base port area though. We need to develop RN technical skills in shore jobs. The MOD is not going to pay to keep an RN organisation and a commercial organisation employed, in the same place, to do the same thing, I guess.
If matelots weren't working in the commercial organisation where else would they get technical experience in the base port area?
I believe the concept is designed to allow us to retain skills. By using RN personnel to work under these organisations we retain the numbers required to look after our own needs as the need arises.

Conversely these same personnel are able to do work on commercial hulls (but not at the expense of delaying work on RN ships) and carry out tasks which help maintain skills and in some cases, enable them to learn new ones, which in turn benefits the service.

None of this detracts from the standard Terms and Conditions of Service that RN personnel enjoy. If anything the Partnership works well for RN personnel as they enjoy the best of service and civilian entitlements. The work a core week and accrue time off in lieu for anything worked over and above this. This TOIL is carefully monitored to ensure that it does not build up.

Basically it's a Win, Win situation. How do I know? Personal experience! That said I have no idea what goes on in Plymouth other than the fact that it rains a hell of a lot.

We've lost the majority of our shore billets to civvies and now when we are shoreside in the dockyard we are working for civvies. There was me thinking that the civvies were there working to support us, I.E. a ship in AMP would get FMG or dockyard support to assist. Now it seems that when we get dockyard support we pay them and do the work ourselves. Or have I got it all wrong?
You certainly havent Jimmy.
BTW develop technical skills, Sorry but what a load of bollocks, I developed my skills in my naval apprenticeship then took that to working on a highly involved heavily technical section(T22 Surveillance). Working shoreside may involve a bit of skill fade, but skill fade never ocurred when we had FMGs, sorry SF but Im going to have to disagree with you. It may work on the budget front, but for ship support, as seen with the poor standard of FTSPs compared to the old AMPs, the big loser is the fleet.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B The Corps 2
A Current Affairs 6
J Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) 7

Similar threads

Latest Threads