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Is the RNR(Air Branch) Relevant to the FAA...

Pierre_Argh said:
one of the few RNR branches that trains for our reservist job in our day-to-day job at zero extra cost to pusser

Would you agree that much of the the regular RN (and by that I mean FAA as we're talking Air Branch) has got so used to using the RNR to fill everyday gaps it has lost sight of how it can employ them operationally?

IMHO, it's become little more than a Temp Agency. One that I admit I've had recourse to sign-up to... but, not really what having a Reserve is all about?

Pierre - we know each other and it was good to see you recently thus I won't bother with an apologia. You are right in identifying that the FAA has become used to filling gapped billets with (especially FTRS) RNR(Air) personnel. What inexcusable, however, is the apparent 'job creation agency' being run by the RNR Air Branch to re-employ non aircrew RNR officers. What should really be addressed by DNR and DNCM is the shortfall in recruiting and career progression - with the exception of specialist aircrew, it seems to me that many FAA officers have the ability and capacity to become multi-skilled and thus appointable throughout a wide range of jobs (look at aircrew and SUY(AV) I remain convinced that for many RNR Officers (Air) it is a job opportunity with the rank and status of the RN but with none of the disadvantages. It's a bit like virginity really, you either are or you're not - there is no half way.

Regards,

fido
 
fido said:
Pierre_Argh said:
one of the few RNR branches that trains for our reservist job in our day-to-day job at zero extra cost to pusser

Would you agree that much of the the regular RN (and by that I mean FAA as we're talking Air Branch) has got so used to using the RNR to fill everyday gaps it has lost sight of how it can employ them operationally?

IMHO, it's become little more than a Temp Agency. One that I admit I've had recourse to sign-up to... but, not really what having a Reserve is all about?

Pierre - we know each other and it was good to see you recently thus I won't bother with an apologia. You are right in identifying that the FAA has become used to filling gapped billets with (especially FTRS) RNR(Air) personnel. What is inexcusable, however, is the apparent 'job creation agency' being run by the RNR Air Branch to re-employ non aircrew RNR officers. What should really be addressed by DNR and DNCM is the shortfall in recruiting and career progression - with the exception of specialist aircrew, it seems to me that many FAA officers have the ability and capacity to become multi-skilled and thus appointable throughout a wide range of jobs (look at aircrew and SUY(AV) I remain convinced that for many RNR Officers (Air) it is a job opportunity with the rank and status of the RN but with none of the disadvantages. It's a bit like virginity really, you either are or you're not - there is no half way.

Regards,

fido
 
Pierre_Argh said:
one of the few RNR branches that trains for our reservist job in our day-to-day job at zero extra cost to pusser

Would you agree that much of the the regular RN (and by that I mean FAA as we're talking Air Branch) has got so used to using the RNR to fill everyday gaps it has lost sight of how it can employ them operationally?

IMHO, it's become little more than a Temp Agency. One that I admit I've had recourse to sign-up to... but, not really what having a Reserve is all about?

Try getting a billet as Serco are taking everything over and once the section is civilianised there go the billets. VL has very few billets available. ETS i heard is being Sercoised, ERS will be by October. Even the OOD is now a civil servant wearing a uniform.The duty Flying supservisor is also being advertised as civil servant in uniform The Navy has gone completly bonkers.
 
Bisley said:
Pierre_Argh said:
one of the few RNR branches that trains for our reservist job in our day-to-day job at zero extra cost to pusser

Would you agree that much of the the regular RN (and by that I mean FAA as we're talking Air Branch) has got so used to using the RNR to fill everyday gaps it has lost sight of how it can employ them operationally?

IMHO, it's become little more than a Temp Agency. One that I admit I've had recourse to sign-up to... but, not really what having a Reserve is all about?

Try getting a billet as Serco are taking everything over and once the section is civilianised there go the billets. VL has very few billets available. ETS i heard is being Sercoised, ERS will be by October. Even the OOD is now a civil servant wearing a uniform.The duty Flying supservisor is also being advertised as civil servant in uniform The Navy has gone completly bonkers.

Spot on Bisley - all OOW at VL are now MSF civil servants carrying the rank and uniform in which they left the service and it's probably cost effective. It is also true that the Duty Flying Supervisor role is also carried out by MSF civil servants; in uniform and, supposedly, in the rank in which they retired although one of them has promoted themself to Lt Cdr even though he/she left the RN as a Lt! As you may imagine, this has not gone down well with either serving officers or traditional ROs in civil service posts. It is important to note, however, that this issue has stuff all to to with the RNR(Air) branch but undoubtedly fuels some of the discontent. Doubtless this post will be construed by those 'for whom the cap fits' as sour grapes but who cares. It's about time that the RNR(Air) branch started recognising the FTRS contribution of ratings rather than providing job opportunities for officers.
 
Fido - completely agree that ratings are undervalued in the Air Branch as it does still seem to be an officers club. Ratings contributions. not just FTRS, but all, seem to be overlooked. With ref to the orignal subject, i believe the air branch is highly relevant but as already stated most of the work goes unseen mostly by the lower deck. Even more startling i have just heard another commanders post has been created within the branch topromote another 2 1/2 to commander. This time under the premise of Commander Air Enginering. Too many chiefs not enough indians. Us poor ratings cannot even get promoted with 1 or 2 execptions.
 
Bisley said:
Fido - completely agree that ratings are undervalued in the Air Branch as it does still seem to be an officers club. Ratings contributions. not just FTRS, but all, seem to be overlooked. With ref to the orignal subject, i believe the air branch is highly relevant but as already stated most of the work goes unseen mostly by the lower deck. Even more startling i have just heard another commanders post has been created within the branch topromote another 2 1/2 to commander. This time under the premise of Commander Air Enginering. Too many chiefs not enough indians. Us poor ratings cannot even get promoted with 1 or 2 execptions.

Thanks Bisley, I hadn't heard of this one but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. You would think that, if our Lords and Masters are that keen on achieving cost savings, they would do well to look at the the tail rather than the teeth in the first instance (or would that conflict with the RNR 'club' rules)? Next, I suppose, will be a Head of the RNR Air Branch ATC Division!
 
I'm not entirely sure you chaps are being fair. Yes there is a preponderence of officers in the Air Branch, but that's because its main use is as a pool of manpower for aircrew jobs. No one denigrates the contribution of RNR Air Branch ratings, it's just that (unlike in the regular RN) there is proportionally much fewer of them and that (unlike the RNR FAA aircrew officers who fly as a day job) their technical skills are easily perishable unless practised.

ACs are an obvious exception, as those RNR ACs working in an ATC role in civvie street easily maintain their OC, but how would an ex-POAEA who is now a policeman (someone I KNOW has been dripping about this) keep up to date with his professional training? In the FAA, there are far fewer non-technical trades compared to the fish-head world, so this is just realism, not discrimination. As for promotion, no idea why this is always a problem, probably because the so-called branch managers at CND (or whatever they're called now) have forgotten to think about it recently. Just a guess.

That said, it is sad that the Air Branch is being used purely as a gap-filling agency for the holes caused by the usual mismanagement of personnel and morale sapping decisions. But it keeps me flying things with guns (ish!), so hooray for that!
 
fangita said:
I'm not entirely sure you chaps are being fair. Yes there is a preponderence of officers in the Air Branch, but that's because its main use is as a pool of manpower for aircrew jobs. No one denigrates the contribution of RNR Air Branch ratings, it's just that (unlike in the regular RN) there is proportionally much fewer of them and that (unlike the RNR FAA aircrew officers who fly as a day job) their technical skills are easily perishable unless practised.

The quote you have just made there sums up the attitude i am afraid of the officer corps in the branch :( . When i joined no where in the joining brief did SOR say the main overiding point is to provide aircrew to squadrons. The point of the Branch is "to provide trained manpower in times of stretch,tension,crisis and war". from all trades. Sorry but some people in the branch are still stuck in the 80's officer only flying club. The 21st century is now with us. 8O
 
Bisley said:
fangita said:
I'm not entirely sure you chaps are being fair. Yes there is a preponderence of officers in the Air Branch, but that's because its main use is as a pool of manpower for aircrew jobs. No one denigrates the contribution of RNR Air Branch ratings, it's just that (unlike in the regular RN) there is proportionally much fewer of them and that (unlike the RNR FAA aircrew officers who fly as a day job) their technical skills are easily perishable unless practised.

The quote you have just made there sums up the attitude i am afraid of the officer corps in the branch :( . When i joined no where in the joining brief did SOR say the main overiding point is to provide aircrew to squadrons. The point of the Branch is "to provide trained manpower in times of stretch,tension,crisis and war". from all trades. Sorry but some people in the branch are still stuck in the 80's officer only flying club. The 21st century is now with us. 8O

I think that Fangita makes a reasonable point but must agree with Bisley about the point of the branch and, more especially, his observation regarding the 'flying club'. From my perspective, many RNR aircrew only use the branch to (a) get the occasional flying hours in fast jets as a brief and enjoyable interlude in their mundane and highly lucrative new career in civil aviation and (b) continue to pretend that they are in the RN. As stretched as both the defence budget and manpower is, the RNR(Air) branch in particular appears to be a luxury that can be ill afforded.
 
Sorry guys the fundamental problem is that these days the RNR aircrew are very little use to the front line. Two weeks is not long enough to get drilled up and current. Let alone get airborne on anything useful. Currency regs are killing your usefulness, especially as we are mostly single pilot or going that way eventually. Now some help with ops is bloody useful and we don’t have to get you current. – Sorry much respect for what you have done but unless you are on ops, hours and serviceable cabs are to bloody tight.
 
rangeblind said:
Sorry guys the fundamental problem is that these days the RNR aircrew are very little use to the front line. Two weeks is not long enough to get drilled up and current. Let alone get airborne on anything useful. Currency regs are killing your usefulness, especially as we are mostly single pilot or going that way eventually. Now some help with ops is bloody useful and we don’t have to get you current. – Sorry much respect for what you have done but unless you are on ops, hours and serviceable cabs are to bloody tight.

rangeblind,

You are absolutely right and it 'aint just aircrew - there are some (but not all) deadbeat ATC wallahs around (standfast the FTRS senior and junior ratings) who are scooping supervisor time without the competency to do the job (or their other MFS jobs) effectively. My view, for what it is worth, if you are not available for immediate front line service - or to fill in for active list personnel deployed to front line service, in a fully worked up condition, then you are taking the money under false pretences. C'mon M*L, I know that you have a valid opinion - post it please.
 
rangeblind said:
Sorry guys the fundamental problem is that these days the RNR aircrew are very little use to the front line. Two weeks is not long enough to get drilled up and current. Let alone get airborne on anything useful. Currency regs are killing your usefulness, especially as we are mostly single pilot or going that way eventually. Now some help with ops is bloody useful and we don’t have to get you current. – Sorry much respect for what you have done but unless you are on ops, hours and serviceable cabs are to bloody tight.

Rangeblind - d'accord!
 
fido said:
From my perspective, many RNR aircrew only use the branch to (a) get the occasional flying hours in fast jets as a brief and enjoyable interlude in their mundane and highly lucrative new career in civil aviation and (b) continue to pretend that they are in the RN. As stretched as both the defence budget and manpower is, the RNR(Air) branch in particular appears to be a luxury that can be ill afforded.

I'm not going to pretend that almost everything you say there is untrue- you're absolutely correct. But why else would any reservist come back for any commitment unless it was fun? It is fun, tremendously so, but it's also filling a vital role, according to ComMarRes and the senior FAA people who remember we exist. Its way above my pay grade to argue with them as to utility, and I'm happy to fill gaps, do "my bit" to help the Andrew and enjoy myself while I'm there. What's wrong with that?
 
fangita said:
fido said:
From my perspective, many RNR aircrew only use the branch to (a) get the occasional flying hours in fast jets as a brief and enjoyable interlude in their mundane and highly lucrative new career in civil aviation and (b) continue to pretend that they are in the RN. As stretched as both the defence budget and manpower is, the RNR(Air) branch in particular appears to be a luxury that can be ill afforded.

I'm not going to pretend that almost everything you say there is untrue- you're absolutely correct. But why else would any reservist come back for any commitment unless it was fun? It is fun, tremendously so, but it's also filling a vital role, according to ComMarRes and the senior FAA people who remember we exist. Its way above my pay grade to argue with them as to utility, and I'm happy to fill gaps, do "my bit" to help the Andrew and enjoy myself while I'm there. What's wrong with that?

Fangita,

Good point and well made - would that there were more who were both as honest and, clearly, doing it for the right reasons.
 
Fido argues that the RNR should be ready to fill a front-line post immediately, but IIRC that's not the intention? The aim is to have skilled personnel who can be quickly trained up to fill gaps... or utilised where their experience can help. It is not the aim (and would be close to impossible) to have reserves who can stay as current as those who are doing the job 24/7.

The regulars have got used to having Reserves who can step back into a post (and frequently used them to fill peacetime gaps). Frankly, this has been a bonus.

The RNR should be conducting training during their time, it is not "taking money under false pretenses" but should be looked upon as an investment. Sadly it rarely is.
 

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