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Is it possible to reprom Old Farts to accept New RN Ways

slim

War Hero
Due to a recent thread in which I accused the modern RN of being stuck in the 1980s with class and social barriers between Ratings and officers I (and I believe more than a few other old farts) would like to be enlightened by comments from young thrusters who are currently serving.
In my day Officers sometimes but very rarely would socialise with those who did not hold a commission. There were of course exceptions mainly from those who had served on the lower deck as ratings.
Most officers talked down and looked down on JRs and would sometimes listen to their senior rates. They were taught at Dartmouth that they were officers and not to mix ouside the wardroom.

I am led to believe that this is no longer the case, that officers and ratings socialise regularly and the officers treat both JRs and SNCos with civility and respect.
Now I really hope that this is now the case, so it's up to you young thrusters currently serving to enlighten me.

Do your officers mix with you, treat you with respect and have they stopped looking down their noses at you.

Comments please>
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
OK, I'm now officially a PSOF, but it WAS different in boats. We could do and say things to the Wardroom that would result in a visit to Table in GS.

I subsequently worked in Naval defence for many years. One company gave us blue overalls - no officer would even acknowledge our existence, let alone expertise. Funny thing was that the same company gave their apprentices white ovies........my how we laughed!

Got loaned to CWTA by my parent company and given white ovies - yeeha - result!! But there was an 'atmosphere' as I was not Serving RN. Good fun though. Sorry, that's a fail!!!! Do it again and I'll inspect it when you have done it correctly!

Subsequently worked for Big And Expensive on a major warship project and dealt with many, many young thrusters. I worked (OK, attended!) there for several years and saw them come and saw them go. They all wanted 'to make their mark' on the project - just one small way that the costs rack up. It didn't matter to some what it said on your desk, if they then found out you'd 'only' been a Chief. And a Sundodger as well!

So, in the fairly recent past yes, there is still a divide.
 

slim

War Hero
Would you like some vinegar with your chip?

Now Alfie boy what makes you think that I have a chip on my shoulder?
I am asking for information on relationships between those holding a commission and those on the lower deck.
Do you have a problem with this?
Are you now worried that the answers may offend you?
So far submariners have confirmed that things are different on boats, well I knew that already as though an ex Wafu I worked for some time for BAe on SINS and witnessed first hand the more relaxed way submariners worked.
I am interested in the way the system works on Frigates, destroyers and large establishments.
 
Kind of irrelevant to the original question though.

Well, not really. It rather implies a lot: how an Officer and JR met, the social circles we move(d) in, how we're treated by our work peers (and each others work peers), how I didn't 'look down' on her, etc etc.

If an individual is chippy, they're chippy, it doesn't matter what rank or rate they are. If I enjoy spending time with them - either in the gym, on the sports field or in the pub - then I'll spend time with them. If they chest-poke me and open their conversation with 'and another thing', then our interaction will last about 10 seconds as I walk away.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
In your case it worked ATG but I know many who wouldn't even have considered it (the socialising aspect I mean).
 

ElQuesoGrande

Lantern Swinger
I am in a branch that's very tri-service. I've served in ships, boats, ashore with the booties and army/RAF. There are good and bad eggs across all ranks/rates and services.

In my experience, you're still unlikely to get officers going out on a run ashore with the lads from 3R or whatever to the duty watch bar or seaman's mission etc. Don't have a issue with that though, as in general as a CPO I probably wouldn't choose to. Familiarity to THAT degree can and does breed contempt.

I've been on many a section or department run ashore for a meal and few drinks with the relevant officers present though.

In terms of closeness to the lads, I'd say Submariner officers first, then booties, then surface fleet.

Many Army officers are so remote from the lads it's truly like being back in the 1950s. I once worked quite closely with a company of Grenadier Guards. Their officers were all pretty much landed gentry. It does depend on regiment or corps though; I can't imagine the average RLC officer being the same as one from the household cavalry.
 
Don't forget that there's quite a lot of difference between a bloke in his early 20s with naff all home responsibility and someone in their mid to late 30s with a mortgage and a pair of kids.

I couldn't afford to go on a run ashore with some of my lads, and I'm certain my liver and brain couldn't cope with the alcohol consumption. 'Good' runs ashore for me are normally complete by 2230, and I have to be able to drive the babysitter home!
 

slim

War Hero
I'm married to a killick.

Ketchup with your chip?

Is your wife still serving or did she leave on getting married?
My mate was a tiffy chief who married a 3rd officer Wren, she had to resign her commission., these of course were the days that pregnant wrens left the service and if smeone was found to be batting for the other side they also left.
If your wife is still serving did she have to get special permission to attend Wardroom functions with you?
I was a killick married to a PO Wren and she had to get the Captains permission to take me into the mess.
 
She's outbound - mainly because with 2 kids she doesn't want to go away.

Never had a problem into bringing her into any of the Wardrooms I've been a member of.
 

Sparkplug

Lantern Swinger
slim

Why did you give atg a bullshit tag for saying he's married to a killick?

Is your wife still serving or did she leave on getting married?
My mate was a tiffy chief who married a 3rd officer Wren, she had to resign her commission., these of course were the days that pregnant wrens left the service and if smeone was found to be batting for the other side they also left.
If your wife is still serving did she have to get special permission to attend Wardroom functions with you?
I was a killick married to a PO Wren and she had to get the Captains permission to take me into the mess.

Times change.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
I was at the dining out by Nelson Wardroom for Admiral Band in 2009. There were a few ratings, senior and junior sitting in ( not serving scran) as well as the long serving civvy steward Albert.

Time and a place, that was both.
 
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