Is Islamic extremism the real threat?

[bunnyjumper]

It's not often that I feel the need to change tack, but I've just watched the most disturbing programme I've ever seen, after the wife recorded it for me on Sky+. Just got round to watching it. It was called the Doomsday Code and was aired on Ch4 a few weeks ago, and was presented by Tony "Baldrick" Robinson.

It was based on a certain very large group of religious fanatics, who have contacts in the highest of places. They believe in the book of revelation and more specifically, the Apocolypse, and are actually - if you can believe the evidence - working to bring it about, by taking the "prophicies" from the bible and attempting to bring them to reality in order to bring about the Apocolypse. They want it because they believe it will take them "to glory". They call themselves "End Timers". Apparently the recreation of Israel in 1948 is a requirement for the apocolypse and it was claimed that these people played a major part in the plan. They get almost limitless coverage on TV and are spreading fast.

And who are these people??

They are the American Evangelists, who apparently have George Dubbaya's advisors call their more senior people for advice on foreign and domestic policy. Sort of puts a whole new slant on the middle east / Israel situation. I actually started to feel that perhaps our Islamic "friends" have got a valid point (although that doesn't excuse suicide bombings etc).

I only watched half of the programme because it actually started to give me the creeps. I don't normally take too much notice of the media, but Baldrick did talk to some rather prominent members of the movement, not to mention certain radical Jews. And they appear to be serious.

Anyone else see it? And am I the only person who was ever so slightly concerned about these so called god fearing christians?

Just proves to me that religion is a bad idea.........

 

[andym]

yep,every religion has its nutters!

 

[BeerBad]

It is not religion but fanatics of any sort, it wasn't religious ideology that sent the soviets to the gulags.

For some reason some individuals feel the need to control what others do and unless they are a CPO(M) they should be told to Fox-Trot Oscar.

 

[asst_dep_to_dep_asst]

It is not religion but fanatics of any sort, it wasn't religious ideology that sent the soviets to the gulags.

But in this modern age, it is religious bigotry and fanaticism that causes joe soap to strap on something explosive and form an unnatural exit for his fellow man. Anybody who believes that his God is on his side is much more dangerous than the average atheist.

Israel was a well-meant mistake to atone for anti-religious genocide, but we didn't fall over ourselves to "give" a homeland to the vast numbers of gypsies and others who died alongside the Jewish holocaust victims. The Jewish diaspora was a huge contributor to wealth all over the world, but Israel came into being on the back of sustained terrorism, so it's small wonder that some Arabs have become polarised and resorted to the same tactics to get their own "homeland".

 

[SILVER_FOX]

andym wrote: yep,every religion has its nutters!

... In my opinion all religion is for nutters. You don't need a label or brand to be a decent human being and look out for your neighbour. I think that religion complicates things too much and is, arguably, the root of many of the worlds problems.

I'm not just talking about the muslim extremeists here. Catholics, Prodestants, Hindu, Jews, etc, etc. All have killed in the name of their God. If there is a God, and he is as good as he is reported to be, then why would he allow this or want people to commit these acts in his name? Ony if he were dead, dumb or indifferent!

Guess that means that I'm going straight to hell.

SF

 

[Lingyai]

Muslims are my current focus, read this.........

Christian preacher regarding
Rick Mathes, a well known leader in prison ministry.

Basics of Islam

This is a must read -- it's short but Very informative!

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per
capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!

Allah or Jesus?
by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's
required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.


I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The __expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
"Diversification" training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

 

[higthepig]

Thank God for one thing, there are only ten commandments.

 

[asst_dep_to_dep_asst]

Allah or Jesus? by Rick Mathes

Ling - sorry mate, but from just a quick Google, this looks like it's a load of crap. I hold no brief for anyone sad enough to need a God as a crutch to get them through life, but if this Mathes chap is real, which I doubt, he is as guilty of stirring up from the Christian side as any Islamic radical from his.

Some of the posts on a few Septic God-botherers sites are really quite disturbing.

 

[bunnyjumper]

What I am glad to see is that I'm obviously not alone in believing most religions to be inherently dangerous - albeit with the best of intentions. I'm basically monotheist, christened CofE, but basically I think the only mainstream religions I have any respect for are the Bhuddists, Hindus and the Krishna. i.e. the only ones that I'm aware of that have never used their religion as an excuse to kill.

I'm all for slotting any person who threatens me, my oppos or my country, but one thing I would never do is use religion as a reason.

Lingyai - nice to see you back on line m8! The comment about muslims killing infidels, is perhaps true for the extremists, and there are plenty of those, but it is sadly a common misconception that most non-muslims believe the Koran (spelling!!) calls for the killing of non muslims. It actually from my own research does not consider christians, jews etc as infidels, but they are known as "Peoples of the Book" (book meaning bible). The Koran actually teaches that those people should be respected and tolerated. Therefore any muslim who believes killing christians and jews is acceptable, does not know their own religion very well at all. Infidels are actually people who don't believe in the "one god". The reason Christians are not held in the highest regard is because of the general belief in the Holy Trinity - but because that trinity is supposedly all the same one god anyway they are taught to respect it. Islam actually bases its teachings on the fact that Mohammed was the last in a long line of prophets, and that the Koran adds to the Bible etc and is the perfection of the faith.

Unfortunately though, as we all know, every religion sees itself as "the ultimate" religion and as we have seen, the evangelists (and the jews) have their own fair share of fanatical idiots who are prepared to bring about the deaths of millions, just to prove they are right. In all fairness at least the Catholic church has learned by it's mistakes (I hope!!)

Faith and belief is one thing but organised religion is a very bad idea. Beliefs should be personal, and not rammed down peoples throats with the barrel of a gun. I think the real shame of it all is that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all essentially the same religion, and by rights they haven't really got anything to be fighting over. Personally I have no problem with muslims - what I do have a problem with is muslims who come to a western country, knowing it is predominantly non-muslim, and who then preach hatred and commit acts of terrorism. I felt the same about the IRA, but that didn't mean all Irish Catholics were bad.

I still think the Evangelist movement is the most sinister of the lot though.

 

[Dabs]

What I am glad to see is that I'm obviously not alone in believing most religions to be inherently dangerous - albeit with the best of intentions. I'm basically monotheist, christened CofE, but basically I think the only mainstream religions I have any respect for are the Bhuddists, Hindus and the Krishna. i.e. the only ones that I'm aware of that have never used their religion as an excuse to kill.

I hate to piss on your parade shippers, but as far as I'm concerned religion is simply an excuse to kill thy neighbour (Islam), or to rob you blind (catholic). However, all the rest are just hangeroners who use a God as an excuse for whatever they want to get out of a life full of people who have no clear meaning of where we came from, or why we are here.
Basically, religion is a con. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't, so fcuk em. Be good, do your best and die honestly, because when its over, its over. I have never ever met anyone who went there and came back and any ****** who said he has is a fcuking ******. :evil:

 

[imom1406]

What I am glad to see is that I'm obviously not alone in believing most religions to be inherently dangerous - albeit with the best of intentions. I'm basically monotheist, christened CofE, but basically I think the only mainstream religions I have any respect for are the Bhuddists, Hindus and the Krishna. i.e. the only ones that I'm aware of that have never used their religion as an excuse to kill.

I'm all for slotting any person who threatens me, my oppos or my country, but one thing I would never do is use religion as a reason.

Lingyai - nice to see you back on line m8! The comment about muslims killing infidels, is perhaps true for the extremists, and there are plenty of those, but it is sadly a common misconception that most non-muslims believe the Koran (spelling!!) calls for the killing of non muslims. It actually from my own research does not consider christians, jews etc as infidels, but they are known as "Peoples of the Book" (book meaning bible). The Koran actually teaches that those people should be respected and tolerated. Therefore any muslim who believes killing christians and jews is acceptable, does not know their own religion very well at all. Infidels are actually people who don't believe in the "one god". The reason Christians are not held in the highest regard is because of the general belief in the Holy Trinity - but because that trinity is supposedly all the same one god anyway they are taught to respect it. Islam actually bases its teachings on the fact that Mohammed was the last in a long line of prophets, and that the Koran adds to the Bible etc and is the perfection of the faith.

Unfortunately though, as we all know, every religion sees itself as "the ultimate" religion and as we have seen, the evangelists (and the jews) have their own fair share of fanatical idiots who are prepared to bring about the deaths of millions, just to prove they are right. In all fairness at least the Catholic church has learned by it's mistakes (I hope!!)

Faith and belief is one thing but organised religion is a very bad idea. Beliefs should be personal, and not rammed down peoples throats with the barrel of a gun. I think the real shame of it all is that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all essentially the same religion, and by rights they haven't really got anything to be fighting over. Personally I have no problem with muslims - what I do have a problem with is muslims who come to a western country, knowing it is predominantly non-muslim, and who then preach hatred and commit acts of terrorism. I felt the same about the IRA, but that didn't mean all Irish Catholics were bad.

I still think the Evangelist movement is the most sinister of the lot though.

Fascinateing series of posts Bunny, it is also a significant belief in Jihadist mindset to bring about the end of the world for the same reasons.

Armageddon, known in Islam as Al-Malhamah Al-Kubrah (the Great War), is prophesised in the religious books and writings of all the Peoples of the Book - Islam, Christianity and Judaism, but with certain differences.

Moslems believe that the devastating battle will take place in Syria as the Prophet Mohammed said: “The place of assembly of the Moslems at the time of Al-Malhamah will be in Al-Ghutah near a city called Damascus one of the best cities in Shamâ€.

The Prophet further foretold events that would occur before Armageddon, including the return to earth of the Messiah (the prophet Isa, known to Christians as Jesus), who would pray behind the Mahdi or “the Guided Oneâ€. The prophet Isa would then destroy the unbelieving armies of Gog and Magog (thought to represent two different European races), before restoring peace and brotherhood to the planet.

This is what the Jihadi's are trying to bring about also!

 

[Lingyai]

I think we can all agree that mostly religion is a crutch for the weak minded who need something to believe in and for many (NI Micks and Islamics for a start) an excuse for terrrorism for their own needs.
I never met a religious person that praying did any good for, doesn't cure cancer or stop you going bankrupt (unless you are a money grabbing evangelist).
Better to live a happy life and put your faith in number one before you end up in number two.

 

[Lingyai]

Hey Bunny, how's it hanging, I have often wondered who kermit is shagging in your avatar, anyone famous?
Good old froggy, go on my son, give her one from me.... eeeuuurrrggggg

 

[bunnyjumper]

Hey Bunny, how's it hanging, I have often wondered who kermit is shagging in your avatar, anyone famous?
Good old froggy, go on my son, give her one from me.... eeeuuurrrggggg

Alas no one famous. I think it's one of the extras from watership down!! As long as Miss Piggy doesn't find out eh!! :lol:

 

[bunnyjumper]

I think we're all agreed then - ban the lot. Believe what you want, Live your own life, and enjoy it to the max. . Organised religion is for nutters with something to prove or someone to blame. :roll:

 

[hobbit]

More on the rapidly spreading cultural/religious trend

This might have dropped below the radar, but Al Qaida and its allies are literally battling the Crusaders every day in Europe. And so far, Europe isn't doing so well.

"We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists," said Michel Thoomis, secretary general of the Action Police trade union. "This is not a question of urban violence any more. It is an intifada, with stones and firebombs."

The French Interior Ministry has acknowledged the Muslim uprising. The ministry said more than 2,500 police officers have been injured in 2006. This amounts to at least 14 officers each day.

The battles have been under-reported but alarming to French authorities. Muslim street commanders, who run lucrative drug networks, have organized youngsters in housing projects to ambush police and confront security forces. The response time allows hundreds of Muslims to storm police cars and patrols within minutes.

"You no longer see two or three youths confronting police," Thoomis said. "You see whole tower blocks emptying into the streets to set their comrades free when they are arrested."

France's huge Muslim minority community has come under the influence of agents often influenced and financed by Al Qaida. These agents have recruited Muslim youngsters for urban warfare in which police and government representatives are injured daily.

Not surprisingly, Muslim neighborhoods are becoming autonomous zones, with police and government workers too scared to enter. The police union is demanding the Interior Ministry supply officers with armored cars.

European law enforcement sources say France could be a model for other countries. The most worried are Britain and the Netherlands.

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

Well just before you all get and cosy, I've just read in today's Scotland on Sunday that two conservative Muslims are, rather paradoxically, standing as candidates for the Christian Peoples' Alliance Scotland in the forthcoming elections to the Scottish Parliament and one, an Imam, has promised to bring 30,000 Muslim votes from Glasgow with him. Ermmm.

Oh yes, and I disagree with your assertion Lingy that only weak people are religious. Religion has always offered a route for the strong to obtain power by other means. In the days before universal suffrage it was the only route to political influence for many, and today senior clergy have a more powerful voice than most elected MPs. The government's appeasement over faith schools illustrates this point.