Is intergration really possible?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by The_Wonderer, Sep 2, 2008.

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  1. (hopefully this will stick in "current Affairs")

    Watching a C4 program last night "Undercover Mosque" made me wonder (again).

    I appreciate that all religions are guilty of some of the same things, but what worries me is the fact that some teach that it's fine to kill in the name of religion / god.
    In my (Atheist) opinion, this can NEVER be right.

    (Apparently, this was the second time that this investigation had taken place)

  2. (granny)

    (granny) Book Reviewer

    Has it ever been different? The 'Crusades' were a religious war. In fact there are hardly any that weren't in some way started that didn't have a belief context. It would seem that we are a tribal species and like to keep it that way. To slightly digress, I hope that the EU in all it's glory wont fall apart because of this, but in the long run we will all eventually want to be our own masters once again. Probably go to war to do it!! Not very optimistic am I?
  3. Me neither :(
  4. Only time will tell I guess. MI5 must be having a right time, theyve busted 24 terrorist plots already during the past year (I think).
  5. They should do one called Undercover Christian Institute. They might be rather suprised by the what is projected to the public and what some of its politically influential membership actually believe but would never express in public. What you learn going undercover as a criminology student using a nom-de-plume. :pissedoff:
  6. <history degree hat on>

    Broadly, integration happens where members of a distinct group within society see clear advantages in doing so. Jewish communities in Eastern Europe in the 19th Century provide a classic example.

    Having spent most of the previous several hundred years living in isolated enclaves, working in traditional businesses, dressing and living as orthodox Jews, a number of the younger generation rebelled against their heritage and adopted more European ways of living and dressing, and entered into new professions like medicine and the law. Some even rejected their religion.

    Their legacy is the large, integrated, Jewish population in cities like London and New York today.

    Is integration possible? Yes. But it will take time, patience (always a dangerously short commmodity) and demonstrating some clear advantages of our society.

    To be blunt if I was living in a run down former industrial town in Northern England I wouldn't be too wild about the UK.
  7. The more interesting question should surely be, is sucessful integration by ex-servicepersons, possible in civvy street? From the content of many posts on RR I suspect the answer is a affirmative NEGGERS! :lol:
  8. Roger...
  9. It will NEVER work as long as certain groups persist in wearing clothing from a different climate(indian sari's etc not very practical in UK are they?),demanding to have this and that,preferential treatment over indigenous citizens,refusal to obey our Laws and Customs and a determined effort to ram their customs and beliefs down our throats.At least some one had the balls to stop the conversion of a church into a Mosque!!!!
  10. Since God was a boy, human beings have been fighting each other over 'the differences'
    It doesn't take much to work out that this is the way it has been, is, and will be for as long as our bums point downwards
    Get over it and load thy muskets
  11. One of course could also have a thread entitled " Will the English ever accept the itegration of Johnny Foreigner"

    The reality is some English will always try to work against the integration of any they see as outsiders, just as some within some of the immigrant groups will struggle to create their little states wihin states.

    With a little luck both extremes of bigotry will fail and most of us will get on with the rest of most of us reasonably well.

    It is as well to remember before pointing the bloody finger of discrimination at Islam that it is not so long ago that Christians in the UK were murdering other Christians because they worshiped the same god in a different way.
  12. You ask " is intergration (sic) really possible?

    The answer is yes, presumably, if all silly religious beliefs are buried.
  13. I was deliberately avoiding posting on this Thread because it would only set me off on a "we can only integrate people who want to integrate" rant.
    Viewing "another place" this morning, though, I came across Serial 1985 and after.

    This illustrates a basic problem; people who, like R Adml Hussain, have integrated and are as British as the indigenous population (in some cases, probably more so) are still viewed as bloody foreigners simply because their name, skin tint or accent fits the stereotype.

    Now the chap who posted that is a genuine and intelligent Septic. Imagine what the thick ones think! Regrettably, I can't post a response until I'm next home on Thursday night. Recent "improvements" to Pprune's Site aren't compatible with the magic lantern Aunty Betty provided.
  14. When in Rome and all that. If I went to a muslim country and preached freedom of speach and equal rights for all (women, homo-sexuals etc etc) I'd be locked up. I am forced to respect the culture of the country I visit.
    It has always struck me as odd that I am classed as British, but someone else is classed as muslim. There is no such country as Muslidonia. I distrust anyone who identifies him/herself by their religious belief.
    Man made God, God did not make man. Unfortunately, doing away with religion would only mean they'll find another excuse.
    But I digress...... It was a very worrying programme.
  15. Turn Mecca into a glass surfaced, self illuminating parking lot…

    Problem solved! :thumright:
  16. Maxi & PoL, I nominate you both for the Schumann Medal.

    In the meantime, just remember the rest of you how we behaved in the former Empire. We mostly lived amongst ourselves, spoke English, imported our mode of dress, customs, religion and attitudes into our host countries.

    Channel 4's documentary makers seem to have forgotten that free speech is not just restricted to Christians and people holding Western philosophical concepts of how we ought (in their opinion) to live. In fact most conservative religious groups have been meeting and co-ordinating their lobbying and other activities in pursuit of common beliefs about how others should live for some years now. Since this is a liberty the police normally go to extraordinary lengths to defend, it seems churlish to become offended by the expression of divergant views.

    The programme makers seemed preoccupied to a degree with the way one woman spoke of Christians as evil and that Muslims shouldn't mix with infidels. Her statement is little different to how people like Ian Paisley used to describe Roman Catholics or Northern Ireland's divided Christian communities, who also lived seperate lives. Regarding the calls for adulterers and gays to be killed - aside from the fact that calling for the Heir to the Throne to be killed is or was misprision of treason - she was merely articulating the opinions of a couple of the Prophet's Companions in the Hadith. After all what is the difference between this and reading similar passages from the Bible? OK, Priests don't directly tell their audience to 'kill him', but they imply that doing so is acceptable.
  17. Matelots: Off with those tighty whities..... Stand fast gronks! Eewu, too late! :pukel: ;)
    Looks like this may be why the Tot and Blue Liners were stopped! o_O
    Laws and customs, what like driving carefully on the roads and drinking lager? :lol:
    Noooooo! I like all those quirky naval customs and beliefs that make RR what it is today! Poor Hig..... under attack again. ;)

    Right, I'll fetch me lid........ ^_^;
  18. Simple answer is yes, time and time'd need to drop the religion though in order to achieve this!
  19. Andy, ever been to the Indian Sub Contient have you, Yes in place is is tropical, but equally during winter it snows in some places and is colder than the UK so your comments on clothing simply display your ignorance. Taking the clothing idea a trifle further some of the clothing some people who would in your view be indigenous to the UK is wholly inapropriate for our climate but it doesn't stop them wearing it.

    As I said before many have short memories about various kinds of indegenous to the UK Christians killing each other nand trying to impose minority rule.

    Let he/she/it who is without sin cast the first stone.
  20. (granny)

    (granny) Book Reviewer

    Integration is not necessarily about incomers, take our own Dear UK, the Irish, the Scots, the Welch not to mention the Cornish, all want their independance. We thought that we were the 'Model' but we can't even keep ourselves together. In this case how can we pass any judgements on what integration should be about.

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