Is 2OE attractive these days- or do your time and go?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Sea_Dodger, Mar 4, 2006.

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  1. I'm counting down my last 5 years and it seems more and more people of my generation can't wait to go. Is there going to be a big skills gap in the next few years when all the seniors leave and become plumbers?
  2. Not interested in 2OE in any shape or form, no extensions, no nothing. Just been aiming towards that pension and lump sum to roll out my time, then I go and get a job in the real world. Don't get me wrong, the RN hasn't always been shite, it's just that I stopped enjoying it a long time ago, in particular the crap pay rises/rises in debits, the more work/less people/more hours/no more pay ethos, the continual drive towards every photo having an ethnic/female/both in it (even to the extent that the Fleet Media Unit have a register of ethnics that they can fly out to ships for PR and photo purposes), Navy News turning into an advertising rag for the current management, the erosion of standards disguised as "progress", and the lack of recognition of skills leading to what they laughingly call "career management" when most of Jago Road can barely spell the word, let alone define it.

    But it's not all bad!
  3. I had to laugh when I read 1SL message the other day stating that the modern Navy is more professional now then in the past! What a joke! I have spent some time at Raleigh Phase One (Part one for those sea dogs) and the quality of some recruits leaves a great deal to be desired. I'm not saying that all are young nozzers are useless, but we seemed to have taken the line of "What the Navy can offer you" and not what the individual can offer the mob. There is a thin dark blue line of people holding the mob together at the moment. Once they see the light and go outside there is not going to be the right people with the experience and character in their wakes to fill their bats.
  4. I think it may be more technological, but I don't think it is any more professional. Different times require different people, and I think it may be unfair to tar all the Part 1/Phase 1 trainees with the same brush - some are extremely capable, some are worse than useless. We are having so many outside rules forced upon us that we don't seem to know where to turn. Our determination to show what good employers we are seems to alienate those of us that are in - but I also recognise that the RN is not a career that interest many of today's youth, which is why we are turning to other countries, and why we appear to require that the only joining criteria is that they can breathe. We are not able to select the cream anymore, the job market precludes that, and this is reflected through the ranks and rates. We have to make do with what we have (which we have always done) but it seems to be getting harder. More paperwork, more rules, more constraints - and when you look at what can be offered in a civilian marketplace, the RN looks less rosy.
  5. A guide to interpreting what people say about 2OE.

    "I told them to ram their 2OE up there arses"
    Meaning-I didnt get offered 2OE
    "2OE is for losers"
    Meaning-I didnt get offered 2OE
    "I'm just doing a couple of years till the kids finish school"(insert any other random justification here)
    Meaning-I will still be around in 10 years time, I just dont want to admit it!

    I dont know the numbers, but I suspect far more people end up doing 2OE than let on. If there is a skills gap in the future, then I would,nt be suprised if extra extensions where handed out the. Service till 65 anyone?
  6. Without knowing the exact structure of a modern sailors pay, careful thought must be given to staying in and not taking your pension. Remember MOD have to pay you your pension without you doing a single thing for them. Start at the point where you have a reasonable (relative) income sitting at home.

    Up until recently Plod had a turgid time trying to get people to remain in the service as all the Baby Boomers came to the end of their 30 years. The following question were asked of managementand yourself.

    1. Why should I work for one third of my basic pay, pension being two thirds of your last years salary.
    2. Why should I then pay 11 percent pension contribution on all that basic pay.
    3. Will that basic pay be further reduced by higher Nat. Insurance Payments etc. Mess bills in your case.
    4. Consider that out of that one third pay the Officer is also paying travel , higher food costs eating away from home and wear on tear on purchased clothing if a non uniform staff.

    Work out your own figures but you could be working for as little as 10% of your weekly pay. Still be subject to Naval Disipline, service away from home etc.

    The Police now offer a much higher financial package. In some cases lads can now retire on Friday and go back on Monday doing just about the same job with a pension, cash lump sum and wages of circa £25000. Private Security is now finding a lack of job applications after years of depressed wages working on the basis that ex-Plod had a big pension so we don't have to pay him much.

    If 20E substancially increases you pay i.e.ten or tens of thousands then go for it if not they will be getting you for less wages than a New Entrant and they don't even have to pay to train you.

  7. I can see you might have retention problems if you are asking people to take a 90% pay cut. The main financial downside of 2OE is that though your pension increases over the extra 10 yrs, your gratuity remains at the 22yr level.My pesonal view is that its a small price to pay for 10 years of job security. Most my civvy mates, both salaried and self employed are envious of the employment situation I am in. Of course that may be because I'm always first to the pub on a friday afternoon.

    The bottom line has got to be do you enjoy the navy enough to want to do an extra 10 years? And of course, the minute it stops being enjoyable, the notice can go in.
  8. There will be offers of gap-filling, and there are offers now. Anyone can slap in for an extension, and you would be surprised those that are getting it.

    Still, nothing sadder than someone who rattles on about leaving the Mob behind, only to appear as an Office Angel or Flagship worker!

    I declined 2OE because of the way that I can see the RN going, and I don't want to be a part of it anymore.
  9. Clanky it is not a pay cut. Its the fact that you could sit at home for not much less money. Your cash sum goes into ING at 4.5%. The you can get a job stacking shelves at you local Tesco's and still be better off financially and get another 20/25 years in, on a another pension. Or go back to a Navy Base as a contract worker cos they are running out of trainers, admin, PO/CPO/WO's/Officers, with your pension, interest on investments plus another income og £20,000 per year. Protected by the Employment Acts, Health and Safety at Work etc. No Naval Discipline Code, no danger of a pierhead jump, No contest.


    PS When I mean Protection of the Empolyment Acts. if you wish to interview a member of staff an initial interview can only realy consist of was he there can he tell you anything. Very short and brief. You then have to give him/her 48 hours notice in writing stating what you wish to examine with them, provide copies of any document, recording, phot's, CCTV etc. that you intend to refer to. Provide them with any notes of all other person interviewed about this matter (If not at that meeting then all notes of witnesses and co-accused produced before any Discipline hearing). During the course of the interview you cannot introduce (Ambush) them with other documents etc. or incidents, facts etc. that were not disclosed in the origional pack. Failure to follow any of these practices will negate any of you evidence or facts at an industrial tribunal and the result will automatically go against you however guilty/responsible the subject is.

    Now you don't get that when the Jossman decends upon you.
  10. Sorry Nutty, but in the real world your numbers just dont add up.
    Even allowing for a generous interest rate on any savings, I,d be hard pressed to earn enough to make up the difference without slogging my guts out or moving. Excuse me while I check out the salaries on the Flagship website.
  11. That's only if you include selling drugs to the trainees and nicking stationery, computers, etc....
  12. The advantage of taking 2OE is thet you can decide when to pull the pin and move on, rather than working to a fixed date if you leave after 22 years.

    If you work at it you can accept 2OE, line up another job, slap in your notice, then request to go early a win - win situation.

    Don't be put off thinking that you have to give a years notice to get out of the Andrew, once you are on 2OE anything over a month seems to be the norm.
  13. I find I'm enjoying the job more as I no longer feel pension trapped
  14. I'll second that quote. I am currently on 2OE and am always keeping my eye out for a civvie job that may crop up. I have seen quite a few WOs and CPOs all leave with around a months notice in the last year or so.

    Even though the Navy has changed big time, I am still enjoying my time in the mob, having been around a few years. The moment I stop enjoying it or indeed, feel its time to go, I will.
  15. Once you get to CPO, as long as you've got a pulse then 2OE (5) seems to be offered. If you accept it means that you get 5 more years security and the RN can get one more front line draft out of you.

    Once you've signed on, a high proportion of personnel are offered a further 5 in the next couple of years and may, if RA 55 becomes reality, be offered another 5 to complete the set.

    If you are happy with your lot, then emplyment to 55 could mean an early retirement, however there is nothing to stop you looking for alternative employment and using the 2OE system to YOUR advantage.

    As the majority who have completed 22 years are eminently employable, you may find it very easy to scale the pyschological hurdle and leave the RN comfort zone for life in civvy strasse.
  16. Clanky

    I do not know what you earn so I have taken £30.000 as a base example figure.

    Gross Pay £30.000 Annual Income.

    Pension at age 40 two thirds annual pay £20.000 Annual Income now £20.000 plus any new income lets say as a civvy trainer with RN £20.000
    £40.000 Gross. a little more than £30.000 don't you think. Plus no Naval Discipline Code, No Sea Time, No Pier Head Jumps etc. all for £10.000 per year more.

    If you do not work at all its £20.000, remain in Pusser and from the £10.000 you are up you have to subtract:
    £2.200 Tax ar 22%
    £600 Nat Insurance contributions
    £1000 Petrol, Tax, Insurance, Maintainance etc at 10 miles each way
    £500 Clothing and food purchased out of home.
    £500 Mess bills and social spending drinks, mistress etc.

    £30.000 less £4.800 is £25.200 less the £20.000 you get sitting at home on pension. So you work within the navy for £5.200 per year very cheap labour me thinks.

    Simple figures which have not allowed for any interest gained at 4.5%

    We did these sums many times in Plod until the Home Office and Revenue changed the rules. Only then did officers in any substancial numbers re-join/remain as attested officers or in similar jobs as civilians.

  17. Long time ago but I opted for another five years on my 22 . It was my decision so as I had security in work while my kids were still at school . After the five years they were technically adult [16 years old]also I almost paid off my mortguage.
    When I did come out it was like a breath of fresh air ---------straight into another job non defence industry and the technology being used was really state of the art modern design commercial electrical control and operating systems. And it was continually getting updated or renewed.

    Money wasn't as good but the Navy pension backed me up anyway and the work place was local . No Duties -paid overtime and holidays.

    My advice to the technicians is get out while you 're young [40] there's a lot of new technology out here -------
  18. I took 2OE, but to be honest I have no real intention of doing it. If the job situation outside is still good in a few years then I'll leave at my 22 point. Most SR's I speak to in the same position seem to have the same plan. So in answer to the original question - it's do your time and go!
  19. An interesting concept Nutty, but check out www.MoDpensioncalculator for some real life figures. Compare them against the wages available as a civvy instuctor from the FSTL site I quoted earlier, and perhaps you'll see the weaknesses in your logic. Why do you deduct normal living expenses?Surely they apply whether in the mob or out, though I wish my yearly drink bill was only £500. TTFN.

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