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Iraq , your opinions please.!

Squirrel

Lantern Swinger
my opinion on Iraq.....blimey, where to start.

I think Iraq already is in a state of civil war, a lot of Iraqis agree with me, but our government doesn't want to admit it, for obvious reasons...it don't look good. We have a country with artificially created borders, containing several ethnic groups with the two major sects of Islam represented. As everyone knows, the Sunni and Shia have been at each others throats since the battle of Karbala in AD680, when Hussein rode his followers out to fight the Sunnis under the evil Yazid, and was martyred. SHIA IRAQIS TALK ABOUT THIS LIKE IT WAS LAST WEEK! The wounds are still there and so is the bitterness for many of them. There is no way that we could have just waded in there, hoping to make this go away. Saddam managed it because he and his Sunni minority held the power, and ruled by terror, but once his regime had been removed in 2003, and the Shia then started to enjoy a greater degree of influence, the Sunnis kicked off, which subsequently resulted in Shia backlashes. It's been going downhill ever since.
As regards security....a great many Iraqi police officers are either also in the JAM (Mahdi Army) or some other Shia militia or group such as SCIRI or the HDI, and it's to THEM that their second loyalty will always lie; their first will be to their tribe. We can't impose a western system of governance and values on a people who have never really known it. To your average Iraqi, what does "Democracy" mean? It's just a word...fcuk all else. It doesn't stop him risking his life going to the shops, it doesn't provide electricity or educate his children.
In short, Iraq is in a state of civil war as we speak, and it will get worse whether we're there or not. The damage has been done and we're not going to rectify it by staying any longer. We have created the "ragged end" that we wanted to avoid in GW1.

Standing by for incoming.
 

onions

GCM
My Nephew is in Basra at the moment. When talking to him, via e-mail, he says that it is so frustrating, that as soon as a pumping station or a generating station is put back on line, along comes a terrorist/freedom fighter and blows it up again. Object of the exercise, as has been stated before, is to keep the troops out there.

Unfortunately we will be damned if we do pull out and we will be damned if we don't.

Keep Striving.
 
D

Deleted 7

Guest
Every one has a valid point, to and against, problem now being is this;

51% of the US gov. were for US troops being pulled out by summer 2008 but low and behold, guess what! Bush has stated that he will be vito'g this bill! What a shock huh!
 
Squirrel said:
my opinion on Iraq.....blimey, where to start.

I think Iraq already is in a state of civil war, a lot of Iraqis agree with me, but our government doesn't want to admit it, for obvious reasons...it don't look good. We have a country with artificially created borders, containing several ethnic groups with the two major sects of Islam represented. As everyone knows, the Sunni and Shia have been at each others throats since the battle of Karbala in AD680, when Hussein rode his followers out to fight the Sunnis under the evil Yazid, and was martyred. SHIA IRAQIS TALK ABOUT THIS LIKE IT WAS LAST WEEK! The wounds are still there and so is the bitterness for many of them. There is no way that we could have just waded in there, hoping to make this go away. Saddam managed it because he and his Sunni minority held the power, and ruled by terror, but once his regime had been removed in 2003, and the Shia then started to enjoy a greater degree of influence, the Sunnis kicked off, which subsequently resulted in Shia backlashes. It's been going downhill ever since.
As regards security....a great many Iraqi police officers are either also in the JAM (Mahdi Army) or some other Shia militia or group such as SCIRI or the HDI, and it's to THEM that their second loyalty will always lie; their first will be to their tribe. We can't impose a western system of governance and values on a people who have never really known it. To your average Iraqi, what does "Democracy" mean? It's just a word...fcuk all else. It doesn't stop him risking his life going to the shops, it doesn't provide electricity or educate his children.
In short, Iraq is in a state of civil war as we speak, and it will get worse whether we're there or not. The damage has been done and we're not going to rectify it by staying any longer. We have created the "ragged end" that we wanted to avoid in GW1.

Standing by for incoming.

I agree with a lot of what you say, Iraq as a modern country is an artifical conglomeration based on a very vague historical idea that is probably wrong anyway. The nations integrity is only iportant because a to many surrounding countries can use it to justify supression of their own significant minorities, and b because most of those who seek political power want to run a 'big' country not a backwater, you can squirrel away more cash in Switzerland that way.

Artificial frontiers are always fragile and likely to cause problems as are conglomerate states that became such states to satisfy either some colonial will, or some local meglamania (sometimes both).

Iraq does need to find it's own way forward but preferably through the ballot box, because if the gun or rpg is allowed to rule we will have this problem all over again in a few years time.

Now if I had the answer I wouldn't be typing this, some one would be paying me bucket loads of cash for my advice, but I am certain we have c*cked up the aftermath of the war and we don't seem to have either learnt that much nor have any real answers either.
 
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