Iraq: the British endgame

F169

War Hero
slim said:
F169 said:
slim said:
I would rather 10,000 Iraqi's died than one more British soldier
A sickening statement. :cry:
Is it sickening ? Iraqi's are killing Iraqi's, the British soldier is piggy in the middle. He is there to keep the peace not to be a target for groups who are settling old scores. This is being carried out in the name of Islam.
My statement stands.
You are right Slim, 'sickening' is an inadequate adjective for the view you expressed, please substitute 'evil'.
 

slim

War Hero
F169 said:
slim said:
F169 said:
slim said:
I would rather 10,000 Iraqi's died than one more British soldier
A sickening statement. :cry:
Is it sickening ? Iraqi's are killing Iraqi's, the British soldier is piggy in the middle. He is there to keep the peace not to be a target for groups who are settling old scores. This is being carried out in the name of Islam.
My statement stands.
You are right Slim, 'sickening' is an inadequate adjective for the view you expressed, please substitute 'evil'.
Seems to me that you believe it is evil for me to believe that a British life is worth more than an Iraqi one. You have a right to your opinion as I have to mine. I may be evil and I still stand by my sentiments. After all it would be Iraqi killing Iraqi.
 

slim

War Hero
F169 said:
One ? One? You are talking about 10,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once we pull out that will be a small number when they really start settling old scores. At present we are in the way and our boys are getting killed and injured. We will have to leave eventually and when we do civil war is a certainty. Better sooner than later before we lose any more.
 
slim said:
F169 said:
One ? One? You are talking about 10,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once we pull out that will be a small number when they really start settling old scores. At present we are in the way and our boys are getting killed and injured. We will have to leave eventually and when we do civil war is a certainty. Better sooner than later before we lose any more.
I am really glad to say I dissagree with you completely
 

slim

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
slim said:
F169 said:
One ? One? You are talking about 10,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once we pull out that will be a small number when they really start settling old scores. At present we are in the way and our boys are getting killed and injured. We will have to leave eventually and when we do civil war is a certainty. Better sooner than later before we lose any more.
I am really glad to say I dissagree with you completely
Peter
I cannot believe that you are so naive to believe that once the British and American soldiers have withdrawn there will not be a civil war in Iraq. if I were a betting man I would put money on it. All we are doing is delaying the inevitable. Lives are being lost now for nothing.
 
The bit I disagree with is the fact that you consider 1 UK life to have more value than 10000 Iraqis.

Yes there may well be civil war when the foreign troops pull out, mainly because we have tried to perpetuate a post WW1 artificial state to prevent the Kurds getting independance and thus upsetting Turkey, and perhaps Iran. Of course at present all those strugling for power in Iraq also want an integrated Iraq because the bigger the country the bigger the power you get.

Regime change is all very well but you really do need to have a good plan about what to do next.
 
On this occassion I can ony agree with Slim. Get the troops out tomorrow co it ain't going to make one tads worth of difference.

Nutty
 

Deeps

War Hero
Guys you miss the point,we are still there now to ensure the Iraqi security forces are trained and operational standard so they can enforce there governments law. If we do pull out now there may well be chaos .If however all of our training commitments are finished, all of the Iraqi security forces are up running and fully operational ,British forces can leave with the knowledge of a job well done. We pull out before our time is done then all of the good work done so far, all of the lives lost and ruined would have been for what?

Its ok to sit in your comfy chairs at home watching SKY news then being an Iraqi expert.Get your feet there on the ground and maybe your opinion will change.Oh and I agree with Slim a British life is worth more to me and my chums than any amout of Iraqi lives.
 

slim

War Hero
The point that I am attempting to make is not that one British lif is worth 10,000 Iraqi lives. The fact is that their is going to be a civil war once the American and British forces leave. I believe this being the case every British/American life lost is a sad waste. It will have no effect on the tens of thousands of Iraqi lives which are most certainly going to be lost in this war. By now the Iraqi forces should have been trained. I believe that if we have to have our service personnel in Iraq they should be deployed ensuring the borders are secure. Let the Iraqi troops sort out the towns and cities.
 

Deeps

War Hero
Slim I agree with your post,maybe I wasnt clear with mine(I am a cyber mong at the best of times) .If we pull out early then if and when there is a civil war we would have to except we could of done more to stop it ,and of course there is a very real chance that we/US would have to go back in to sort it out. If however we carry on as planned ,we help the fledgling Iraqi government all we can then withdrawl in the timeline stated .Well then if there is civil war we as a country has done its bit.

I do disagree with the term civil war,the biggest ''side'' in Iraq is the government backed by the army and police. All the other war- ing groups
are small Militia's .As I am sure you are all aware the middle east is an extremely complex area with tribal issues, shia,sunni, kurds and a whole host of others.We cannot pull out of the country until it is as stable as possible .Dont forget who is to the east of Iraq,they have there fingers in ''lots of Iraqi pie's'' .

In short if we pull out before time there will be carnage,if we pull out when Iraq is ready to sort its own problems out there may be carnage. There is a massive big picture to look at with Iraq.Other neigbouring countrys are very interested in what happens for there own gains.
 

safewalrus

War Hero
A cynic might note the following -

didn't they say Vietnam would be a blood bath once the Americans pulled out?

So that's how Mr. B. Liar is going to avoid getting a Prince of the Realm killed?

Must be getting rally short of money, pull out and disband all these Regiments?

Or ship 'em off to another war up the road? (take yer pick which one)

Boy am I glad I'm not a cynic!!
 

F169

War Hero
Deeps said:
Oh and I agree with Slim a British life is worth more to me and my chums than any amout of Iraqi lives.
Well, thank God you and slim aren't the two men (as in two man rule) controlling the nuclear deterrent. It is surprising to see a Mod express such views in the light of Seadog's desires for CA&RR.
 

slim

War Hero
F169
Next time an Iraqi terrorist dies please put a condolence message on RR and see what the response is!
Do Iraqi's (in general) care when a British soldier or civilian is killed or injured?
Do you remember the scenes after 9/11 of Iraqi and other Muslims dancing in the streets to celebrate?
 

Deeps

War Hero
Since when has my MOD status got anything to do with my opinion ,which is based on 3 tours of Iraq in 3 years.
 

mophead

Lantern Swinger
Deeps said:
Since when has my MOD status got anything to do with my opinion ,which is based on 3 tours of Iraq in 3 years.
A shame it was a waste of your time and effort;you and all the troops made a difference on the small immediate scale,but no difference to the long position.The Arabs will go back to killing each other because that's what they have been doing for at least the last 4000 years.Why do we/the US have to sort everyone else's problems? There are enough problems at home to worry about.
 

F169

War Hero
Deeps said:
Oh and I agree with Slim a British life is worth more to me and my chums than any amout of Iraqi lives.
Deeps, I simply hope a journalist doesnt quote you and Slim equating the value of one British life to 10,000 Iraqis, or in your case 'any amount'. I imagine this site could do without that kind of publicity which some may view as likely to incite racial hatred and as you are a moderator it may be interpreted as an official view of RR.

Slim, I do not have any sympathy for terrorists of any nationality or religion. I hate them with a passion but I am still able to abhor your view that one British life is worth the lives of 10,000 Iraqis, a view which you reaffirmed above.
 

Deeps

War Hero
mophead said:
Deeps said:
Since when has my MOD status got anything to do with my opinion ,which is based on 3 tours of Iraq in 3 years.
A shame it was a waste of your time and effort;you and all the troops made a difference on the small immediate scale,but no difference to the long position.The Arabs will go back to killing each other because that's what they have been doing for at least the last 4000 years.Why do we/the US have to sort everyone else's problems? There are enough problems at home to worry about.
A waste of my time and effort? I strongly disagree.The Iraqi people have had the first diplomatic elections in over 30 years.I know I have done my bit to help these peoples as have thousands of over servicemen/women that have actually served there.Once again its easy to comment on the istuation in Iraq from the comfort of an armchair in ''blighty''.The press raely show any coverage of all the good work service personnel have done over the last 4 years.Hopefully we can withdrawl from Iraq soon leaving behind a secure diplomatic government .
 

slim

War Hero
F169
How is a life valued?
Is the life of a junkie worth the same as a soldier serving his country?
Is the life of a terrorist supporter equal in value to that of a Red cross worker?
Are the lives of suicide bombers equal to the lives of those they kill?

Our British soldiers are serving in a country to fight a war which was not of their making. They should not be there. However being as they are there they are there in the form of peace keepers.
So do you equate their lives one for one with the insurgents that are killing them?
All lives have a value, however they are not in my opinion valued at the same price. I reiterate what I have stated. I would rather we withdrew now, if this saves one British life I will be more than happy. If after our withdrawal the inevitable civil war happens and 10,000 Iraqi's die in the name of Allah then so be it. It is not racial hatred, I would rather that no more deaths occur of any nationality, however it is the loss of British lives which concern me most.
 

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