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Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Officers

rnr77

Badgeman
Hi, can someone explain to me the promotion aspects for the Info Sys and Training Mngt Eng Officers. From reading the literature they lead you to believe you will start at a higher rank than other officers?

Would having an MEng and also good work experience help with initial promotion??

The Information Systems Engineering Officer leaflet doesn't state (like all the other engineering officer leaflets) "promotion to lieutenant is automatic, provided.....". I did notice however that along with Doctors, Dentists etc, these are graduate-only roles.
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

I've just returned from Collingwood having had the opportunity to ask this very question there.

I only asked about E(IS), but perhaps E(TM) is the same...

E(IS) officers are given promotion to lt automatically because it's a brand new branch and there aren't enough officers to fill all of the positions. Not only does it help attract people from industry who are used to a high(ish )salary, but also there just simply aren't enough lts for the current tasks. I was told that this promotion is likely to cause a bit of friction with other officers, and you shouldn't go rubbing their noses in it!

I was also informed that promotion prospects in this area are quite high in the near future for similar reasons, but obviously these will be based on your capabilities.

Having a masters qualification gets you 6 months seniority. This means that you will be eligible for promotion to lt cmd (which is by no means guaranteed) 6 months sooner than a lt without a postgraduate qualification.
 

rnr77

Badgeman
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

TimeToJoinUp said:
I've just returned from Collingwood having had the opportunity to ask this very question there.

I only asked about E(IS), but perhaps E(TM) is the same...

E(IS) officers are given promotion to lt automatically because it's a brand new branch and there aren't enough officers to fill all of the positions. Not only does it help attract people from industry who are used to a high(ish )salary, but also there just simply aren't enough lts for the current tasks. I was told that this promotion is likely to cause a bit of friction with other officers, and you shouldn't go rubbing their noses in it!

I was also informed that promotion prospects in this area are quite high in the near future for similar reasons, but obviously these will be based on your capabilities.

Having a masters qualification gets you 6 months seniority. This means that you will be eligible for promotion to lt cmd (which is by no means guaranteed) 6 months sooner than a lt without a postgraduate qualification.

It gets more confusing though, according to the RN website you only get the 12k initial amount if you join marine, weapon or aircraft engineering.

Surely from what you say- the E(IS) officers should get this too?

Im glad you replied though, that sounds pretty interesting! Could you talk me through some typical timelines starting from passing AIB. I understand i then do 9 months at Britannia....... (assume ive got MEng and)

After 9 months at Britannia, i 'graduate' and im a Lieutenant straight away? Or after fleet board? What kind of timescale between fleetboard and realistic Lnt-Comdr promotion?

Thanks
 

TimeToJoinUp

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

I believe Eng graduates get the "Golden Hello" because they a re a long term shortage catagory, unlike E(IS), where it is envisaged that the automatic promotion to lt will be dropped as soon as the branch positions are filled to a suitable level with qualified people.

The training pipeline (which it has taken me about 5 months of detective work to find out (What's E(IS)???)) goes as follows.

BRNC
Shore job - approx 6 months

Now where it all gets fuzzy.

"If" selected for a sea job, you follow the WEO route, going to SEMC at Collingwood. Eventually ending up as an assistant to the WEO on a 45 or LPD/H (or astute if you don't like the sun)

"If not..." - no idea. No one else I have spoken to seems to know either. This troubles me somewhat, because I would like to go to sea for atleast part of my career. Still, it seems that a lot of E(IS) go into SEMC.
 

rnr77

Badgeman
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

TimeToJoinUp said:
I believe Eng graduates get the "Golden Hello" because they a re a long term shortage catagory, unlike E(IS), where it is envisaged that the automatic promotion to lt will be dropped as soon as the branch positions are filled to a suitable level with qualified people.

The training pipeline (which it has taken me about 5 months of detective work to find out (What's E(IS)???)) goes as follows.

BRNC
Shore job - approx 6 months

Now where it all gets fuzzy.

"If" selected for a sea job, you follow the WEO route, going to SEMC at Collingwood. Eventually ending up as an assistant to the WEO on a 45 or LPD/H (or astute if you don't like the sun)

"If not..." - no idea. No one else I have spoken to seems to know either. This troubles me somewhat, because I would like to go to sea for atleast part of my career. Still, it seems that a lot of E(IS) go into SEMC.
I was going for RNR but my careers office are trying to tempt me to go for RN. When i said i wouldnt want a see role the lady mentioned something along the lines of i wouldnt have to do much as sea. I cannot remember if she was referring to E(IS) specifically or not.....

Considering the current shortage, is this something which could get to the required level in a couple of years? ie would they stop automatic promotion in a couple of years? Or is E(IS) similar to doctors and dentists where you do need a good qualification, so it will always be short in supply? For instance, engineers are going to be short in supply for a long term as all our graduates want to do media studies. So can you envisage E(IS) officers being 'rare goods' for the nxt foreseeable few years?
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
When i said i wouldnt want a see role

Bluntly, why the f*ck join the RN if you don't want to go to sea?
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

TimeToJoinUp said:
....brand new branch and there aren't enough officers to fill all of the positions.

Who told you it's a brand new branch, it's been in existence for a good 10 years now.
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
Karma said:
rnr77 said:
When i said i wouldnt want a see role

Bluntly, why the f*ck join the RN if you don't want to go to sea?
One doesnt join the RAF just to fly, do they?

Different argument, the RAF support flying operations and it takes a lot of supporting infrastructure to allow that to happen. The RN takes a lot of the supporting infrastructure with it.

What's your reason for not wanting to go to sea?
 

rnr77

Badgeman
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

Karma said:
rnr77 said:
Karma said:
rnr77 said:
When i said i wouldnt want a see role

Bluntly, why the f*ck join the RN if you don't want to go to sea?
One doesnt join the RAF just to fly, do they?

Different argument, the RAF support flying operations and it takes a lot of supporting infrastructure to allow that to happen. The RN takes a lot of the supporting infrastructure with it.

What's your reason for not wanting to go to sea?
Without splitting straws, i am currently going for RNR not RN, which have a lot more non sea-based roles. I was just mentioning the AFCO wanted me to swap to RN because of my degree subject.

Dont really want to spend my twenties on a ship in the middle of nowhere. Hence RNR definitely suits me more.
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
Karma said:
What's your reason for not wanting to go to sea?
Without splitting straws, i am currently going for RNR not RN, which have a lot more non sea-based roles. I was just mentioning the AFCO wanted me to swap to RN because of my degree subject.

Dont really want to spend my twenties on a ship in the middle of nowhere. Hence RNR definitely suits me more.

Ah yes, I recall the SBS(R) thread as well. So apparently you're happy to deploy with the RNR but not to a ship? Or are you about to say something about that being different as well?

If you want to join the RN, bearing in mind the ongoing reserves integration project, in either a regular or reserve capacity but don't actually want to do the job then you're going in the wrong direction.

The cynic might suggest that as an officer you're going to spend five years getting to the trained strength, then resign as soon as there is a risk of going overseas.
 

icantfly

Lantern Swinger
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
I said i dont fancy spending my twenties on a boat with 500 blokes living in a broom cupboard.

You do know the RNR roles are completely different to the RN? Some of them are shore-based not sea-based??

I know the feeling. Been in the RNR for a dozen or so years now, am in my 30's and the only time I've been onboard a pussers' war canoe in the last eight years is when it was tied up alongside..

Prefer the sand.

If you want shore-based, you have a good chance of being thrown somewhere hot and sandy. And if you don't like that idea, wait until you're told you're going and try and get out of it - then act all surprised when the cops haul your arse onto the next crabair flight.

Even the RNR goes to war these days - some of us, more than once. And not just with paintball guns either.
 

rnr77

Badgeman
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

A weekend training on a ship is fine, being deployed on a ship isnt what im going to do though.
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
You do know the RNR roles are completely different to the RN? Some of them are shore-based not sea-based??

I'm pretty familiar with both the RN and RNR structures, I've employed reservists both afloat and ashore in a range of different roles.

I'm just very confused by your approach. You want to join the RN as a reserves officer, then you ask about joining the SBS. Next there are two threads where you're getting worked up about any seniority that your MEng might get you, first as a reserves officer and now as an IS Engineer.

Clearly your MEng is electronic or communication engineering or computer science, which opens up a whole host of opportunities for you. I'm confused as to why an ACLO might have suggested the regular service to you, based on your qualification, without discussing the available specilisations with you. At the very least being able to tell you how long it'll take you to get to Lt Cdr (fwiw it doesn't help your credibility when after five months you still can't even get terminology correct), broadly 10 years to being in the frame for selection.

All branches, regular and reserve, have a seagoing role as well as a shore-side role. Some branches and specialisations spend more time afloat than others. If you want to be a reserve officer then the opportunities at Lt level do tend to be ashore, unless one is Amphibious Warfare. However the deployments are 6-9 months long.

Realistically as an IS you will spend some years at sea first as an Assistant WEO and then potentially as an IS manager or the Charge Engineer looking after communications and electronic systems. I'm not sure what the role is now called, it used to be WEO but since it's now open to WEs or ISs then that may have changed.

I would suggest that you really seriously need to consider your motivation for joining the service, whether regular or reserve.
 

Karma

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
A weekend training on a ship is fine, being deployed on a ship isnt what im going to do though.

What do you think you're going to do in the reserve?
 

dunkers

War Hero
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

rnr77 said:
im saying i dont want to spend months living on a ship. A weekend training on a ship is fine, being deployed on a ship isnt what im going to do though.

In that case the RN - whether regular or reserve - isn't for you.

It is true that joining the RAF often does not mean flying.
It is not true, however, that joining the RN does not mean going to sea.
You will be going.

I'm afraid there are numerous reasons you are not coming across as a suitable candidate for RN officer.
 
Re: Information Systems/Training Management Engineering Offi

There are several ships now where the DWEO is an E(IS) Officer, so if you go regular there it is likely that you will be going to sea.

However, any one who joins the RN or RNR should be prepared to, and want to go to Sea to do the job they are trained to do. It is the Royal Navy, if you want to do a shore side job join the crabs. Something like this, play around in the UK at being an Officer, http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/engineerofficer.cfm

And rnr77 they asked you those questions in your interview because the Navy is not looking for some sort of book geek, yes well done for getting the qualifications, but can you be a leader of men? Can you provide that spark that your team would need when it is half way through a BOST Thursday War, and some of your team have been up all night, in a Sea State 7, and the external communications system goes down?
 
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