Information systems engineer officer and the Technical bursary

[Pwdrin]

A bit about my background...
I've wanted to join the RN on and off for about 6 years, and I am going to just do it now. Anyway now I am in university studying BSc computer forensics (1st year). And I am looking to join as a EO (IS)

Anyway I've been to the careers office today, and I forgot to ask about the bursary schemes. They are also looking to see if Computer Forensics counts towards the 1st degree they need.

I can't phone up today as they have closed, but I want to know if the degree counts towards the technical bursary. Sponsorship (18-21 Uni years).

Any information about anything will help me so much.

 

[alfred_the_great]

I'm not sure E(IS) still exists - I think they've been taken over in toto by E(WE).

 

[Pwdrin]

Royal Navy

Still there, the AFCO didn't seem to know about it either, had to hunt the offices for the handout as they didn't have any in the interview rooms.

EDIT: Also from reading WE and IS the IS seems more network security, where the WE didn't mention the words.

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Information Systems has been fully absorbed into the WEO trade so that there is more flexibility with regard seagoing appointments, which were previously limited.

With regard the degree itself, there was a Recruiting Instruction issued very recently broadening the scope of acceptable degree qualifications for potential engineering officers. Have to say, I don't recall 'computer forensics' being included as it sounds like one of those dodgy degrees invented to cater for the "CSI devotees" and generate revenue for universities, however I may well be mistaken (I usually am). In short the AIB are the only authority able to confirm whether it is an accredited engineering degree, hence the reason the AFCO visited were as vague as me.

If it is an accepted as an accredited engineering degree by AIB & you are otherwise academically & fundamentally eligible to apply for Engineering Officer entry, then you are eligible to apply for the defence technical undergraduate scheme also.

The RN website is still listing E(IS) as a seperate trade but it's out of date unfortunately. Royal Navy

Best of luck.

 

[Pwdrin]

Computer forensics is basically computer science with a added network, law and forensic tools. So you can work with the Gov etc.

The staff at AFCO are going to ask at the AIB for me to ask if the course is accredited. If not I may transfer to Network Security or Information Systems. Ideally I don't want to as I enjoy my forensic modules. I notice that there is a bursary for WE, so can you give me information on how to get these bursaries? As I can't visit the AFCO till Easter as I have had experience with Swansea AFCO.

What are the main differences between WE and IS? Would I still be able to specialize in Networks or surveillance if I do join as a WE?

Also does the WE just need a computing degree? 3rd upwards? As the IS states that a first is required.

EDIT:
Computer Forensics is a BSc Hons that needs 300 UCAS points to study, it is along with Game Dev and Networks the highest course in my University.

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Firstly a "first degree" means the first degree you take, not a masters, not the grade - it's poorly written in the literature & causes lots of confusion.

WE & IS are pretty much identical interchangeable career paths, but wherever possible, the relevant qualifications may influence the appointments ashore rather than those afloat.

With regard my comments about the degree itself, it's probably worth adding that I peaked with a CSE in woodwork, so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Pwdrin]

Ahhh I understand now, the Careers officer I spoke to today told me it was a first grade.

Do you know where/who to talk too about the engineering bursary. It states I can get £4000 a year online. So I obviously want to give it a go. I can finally leave McDonald's then ha! Also would I need to pass the AIB etc to receive the bursary?

Forgot to thank you in previous post, but thanks Ninja. I wasn't meaning anything by saying about my degree just wanted to clear it out.

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Yep, even some working in AFCOs sometimes think a third is not accepted, but it is if an accredited degree.

Again your AFCO (email below at the link) are the people to talk to. Applying for a bursary is exactly the same as any other Officer application other than the fact you need to be scoring exceptionally high at AIB to be awarded the bursary & a reserved place.

 

[older_joiner]

Ahhh I understand now, the Careers officer I spoke to today told me it was a first grade.

Do you know where/who to talk too about the engineering bursary. It states I can get £4000 a year online. So I obviously want to give it a go. I can finally leave McDonald's then ha! Also would I need to pass the AIB etc to receive the bursary?

Forgot to thank you in previous post, but thanks Ninja. I wasn't meaning anything by saying about my degree just wanted to clear it out.

If a serious question;
Yes you would need to pass AIB to receive the busary.
I'm going in as a WEO on Monday, and the forms you receive post AIB are in regards to a (for me) retrospective bursary. You don't get them unless you pass AIB (I'm happy to be corrected on this, but I don't think that is the case by far).

I have a physics degree, so I'm not sure how it will happen with a forensics degree. However I had to show it was accredited by the institute of physics, rather then a shim shame degree.
Miles may vary for IS, but since it is now a part of the WEO role, stand by.

 

[older_joiner]

Yep, even some working in AFCOs sometimes think a third is not accepted, but it is if an accredited degree.

Again your AFCO (email below at the link) are the people to talk to. Applying for a bursary is exactly the same as any other Officer application other than the fact you need to be scoring exceptionally high at AIB to be awarded the bursary & a reserved place.

Sorry NS but if I may ask a quick question on this.

Are you referring post degree regarding the bursary?
I believed that the bursary was awarded to all those applying to the WEO role post AIB?

 

[alfred_the_great]

1 - Now that all IS are actually WEs, your qualifying degree must have a substantial amount of maths in it. Assuming you're on the Northumbria course (Computer Forensics - Northumbria University, Newcastle UK), there doesn't seem to be much maths there. (N_S - it is fully accreditated by the British Computer Society, and as such isn't a "mickey mouse degree" per se!). The reason you need to have a decent amount of maths in your course is because the first phase of the Systems and Engineering Management Course (SEMC) is entirely academic, and has a fair amount of maths in it. If your last exposure to maths was GCSE, then you'll struggle.

2 - As for further opportunities for working in IS, there is a thread by "wave_dodger" - http://www.navy-net.co.uk/newbies/3...ns-systems-e-–-branch-brief-4.html#post885917 - who is a serving, senior IS Officer and gives a good outline of how it used to be. If he notices this thread (and he's quite busy), he might be able to give you some more specific advice as to what it's like post WE/IS merger.

3 - I know it differs to being in the RN, but have you thought about applying to GCHQ? Their role is massively interesting, it's not just stuck behind a desk, and you would have a better chance of using your degree fundamentals then you would as an Officer. Students & Graduates - GCHQ

 

[Ninja_Stoker]

Sorry NS but if I may ask a quick question on this.

Are you referring post degree regarding the bursary?
I believed that the bursary was awarded to all those applying to the WEO role post AIB?

The technical bursary may sometimes be awarded retrospecively, but it's usually aimed at undergrads who pass AIB for Engineering Officer.

There is a bounty scheme (£12K) for postgrads who undertake AIB and join as Engineering Officers. (Listed under "Golden Hello" : Sponsorship )

 

[Pwdrin]

Guys just got off the phone with AFCO, and they have told me if the courses are >50% computer based (Mine has one or two modules that differ from Computer Science), that they can accept that. Just keep this as reference as things might change etc.